Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful. Some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. Tibet house is the Dal Lamas cultural center in America. All best wishes. Have a great day.
Speaker 1 00:00:27 This is episode number 17, titled Butta and yoga.
Speaker 2 00:00:36 Let's look at the, uh, third first. Okay. Sorry.
Speaker 0 00:00:39 Third one. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:00:41 Uh, Brune. Uh, Roger. Yo Roger, yo, uh, Jonathan
Speaker 0 00:00:51 Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:00:52 Hat become, uh, SWAT Mora.
Speaker 0 00:00:59 Oh, that's nice. CRI
Speaker 2 00:01:01 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:01:02 In the form of compassion.
Speaker 2 00:01:05 Yeah. Out of compassion,
Speaker 0 00:01:07 Slowing to the, you want, so read it or going to the darkness arising from the multiplicity of opinions, people are unable to know the Roger yoga, the Royal yoga compassion, compose the author, composes the heart yoga, like a torch to dispel their darkness.
Speaker 2 00:01:31 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:01:33 So can I ask you then, uh, what is Roger yoga ask me that they can't do yes.
Speaker 2 00:01:39 Oh, huh. So Raja means king or Royal. Yes it's. So it's the best yoga mm-hmm <affirmative> and, um, it's any yoga that's it's the completion of any of the different approaches to yoga mm-hmm <affirmative> and so it's the, uh, realization of the nature of reality. It's mm-hmm <affirmative> can be defined according to your metaphysical, your metaphysics to kind of define it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, let's see. One traditional, the Dante definition is the one realizes that, uh, um, Oman and Beman are same mm-hmm <affirmative> absolutely indivisible mm-hmm <affirmative> um, but if you were a Buddhist, you would find that a bit awkward.
Speaker 0 00:02:24 No, no, that's
Speaker 2 00:02:25 Cool. Oh, okay.
Speaker 0 00:02:26 That's not a problem.
Speaker 2 00:02:28 Cool. Okay. And, and then the state has described, uh, in the state,
Speaker 0 00:02:32 We define the, maybe the Oman Nama a little bit tiny bit differently, but okay. But, but we'll get into that, but would define to use that language
Speaker 2 00:02:41 Actually. Okay. Yeah. I like Homan is just in normal San script, the word for oneself. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so if you're just talk, like I'm talking about me, myself, anything I'm referring to as me, and of course then in a D Toon, what you're discovering is is, is you all of the things that are not you initially
Speaker 0 00:02:59 Uhhuh, you think you are all the things you
Speaker 2 00:03:01 Are. Yeah. Like I'm, oh, I'm not my fingernail. I'm not my body. I'm not my mind. I'm not any of the content of the mind. I'm not the subtle intelligence. I'm not the wins. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I'm not the promise. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and all of it. Well, who are you? Okay, well, keep looking <laugh> and uh,
Speaker 0 00:03:17 You are God, you have gun.
Speaker 2 00:03:18 Yeah. And what, what is that? It's not anything you think it's not anything. And so Oman is the actual indefinable nature of, you know, even if you said anything it's then you have to keep looking. Well, what is it's actual Oman is the actual what's it's the actuality Uhhuh of reality. Right? Um, and what we discover is that Oman is empty, empty of self
Speaker 0 00:03:49 Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Speaker 2 00:03:50 It has nothing, no matter how deeply you look, there's no ego, there's no self or anything separate there, but Oman turns out to be everything mm-hmm <affirmative>, but not even everything it's it's you mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so when, when you say Oman and everyone is doing yoga, I wanted to find my Oman and it still has a local quality, you know, realize yourself mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then the word Braman, which is a separate evolution in, uh, Indian philosophy. It's a ADIC term mm-hmm <affirmative> tends to mean that which expands, which it's nature is like this holographic endless expansion. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, this inter penetration where you it's this, like this gigantic net mm-hmm <affirmative> every point of the net is, is the center of the net, but it it's lacking in a sense of local quality, local, you know, just the ordinary word. You say, Vermont people think of this great ocean of light or something mm-hmm <affirmative> and they don't think of specific things, you know, like mm-hmm <affirmative> cheese and wine or whatever goes on locally in the Catskills. Okay. Whereas you say <inaudible>, you know, you're thinking of like a little bit of more like, even though you're not these things, you're still thinking of, well, you know, personality, uh, fear of death. Oh, I can't overcame death. And so there's still this kind of subtle dualism philosophically between Opton and Braman mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so to realize that there's absolutely no difference at all, is to understand. And this is something you realize rather than understanding intellectually.
Speaker 0 00:05:29 Okay. And should I, can I redo do that from the Buddhist side to get rid of the notion that there is this opposition in the sense that the Buddhist side starts with ament, the non-self or no self or selflessness, we call it. And that's sort of where, uh, Richard, just as he rightly said, the Padma man, the Supreme cell is, is the realization of your freedom from all of the things you thought. We think we are ourselves, body, mind, speech, possessions, whatever, all of that. So there's this 90, 90 process where no, no, no Netty Netty. They call it right where you're not this. You're not that you're not the other. And then it turns out you are the ultimate, which is everything. So the Buddhi start right away with the ament. And they say that what you are is lacking yourself, meaning that all your relative selves are not absolute. So they're not really, you they're relatively you, but, but, and we wrongly tend to think that our relative identity is our real identity. As my old guru used to say, my Mongolian guru used to say, people are not wrong to think they're real. The problem is they think they're really real <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:06:54 And in the other words, we exaggerate sub subconsciously. We people think they're sort of absolute. That's why I like the, the irreducible need. You know what I mean? And uh, they have a self identity that say irreducible themselves. So the, the VE way goes where you reject all the minor attributes, the relative attributes of self as being the real self. And when you come to the real self, you call out the Supreme self, which actually has none of your individual characteristics. And therefore you say that Supreme cell is Ramma the Buddhist way is you realize your selflessness, meaning that all of those sense of self is not you. And then emptiness, they call bra as an emptiness. The equivalent of bra is emptiness, which just means that it's empty of any personal fixed thing that you could relate to. So in a way, that's why it's shared like, like everyone is brown, you know, in Han.
Speaker 0 00:07:53 And in fact, Han's form of a writer was unpalatable to the majority of the S in India. He was actually accused even very soon, you know, in Indian terms, very soon, the mere century or two after he wrote, he, even though they have Sean Arias there, he personally was accused of being Bowa, which means the closet Buddhist. And the reason he was is that if you say that bra is near Guna, meaning unqualified, absolute, and that said shared, you know, when you realize your grandma, you realize everybody else is bra too. So you're actually not that special in a way everybody is bra. You know what I mean? And, and everybody can realize their bra, right? So that means that things like the cast system, the difference between the Braman, the Shia Theia and the sh the Chan that these are just relative human made manmade artifacts. There's nothing absolute about them. And actually the Chanal, the outcast is bra too, is near GU bra. And when you realize that you are, you realize you are the outcast to follow me. So it's radical non, and this, they didn't like that. So they came up with what they call <inaudible>, right. Qualified nonduality and then ultimately with a great philosopher, Indian philosopher called Mada in the 16th century, in the 1500, they came up with a brilliant Indian invention called dry. Right. Which means dualistic nonduality
Speaker 2 00:09:26 And dualistic nonduality preserves the specialness.
Speaker 0 00:09:30 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:09:32 In Machar's case of, of Vishnu as the Supreme God. Right, right. In other words,
Speaker 0 00:09:37 Sorry,
Speaker 2 00:09:38 There is this level called Vermont, but that's a lower off sloughing of the Supreme Godhead of the Supreme deity. Right. Therefore they maintain their specialness,
Speaker 0 00:09:48 Right.
Speaker 2 00:09:49 Uh, their exclusivity, uh, and their political and economic positions that's right. Just like,
Speaker 0 00:09:56 And they don't have to
Speaker 2 00:09:59 The same thing.
Speaker 0 00:10:00 Exactly. And, and so that's why, so, so, so that's why the Buddhist and Shanghai are actually no problem, very, very close and the Buddhist and the Vains or the white, a whites, cetera. And they're all the beautiful, sophisticated, philosophical things. Every single one of them are the greatest philosophers that ever walked, or they're incredible Indian San grade is the greatest philosophical language. And they're just amazing. But the Buddhist and the, the real heavy duty radical were always intentioned with them because radical non-dualism erodes, erodes, you know, absolutized hierarchies. And that is why in tantra, which I believe Mar is the source and very closely connected to ha yoga. And as we will explore here and, and we'll discuss, and we'll get Richard view of that, but TTRA Tre yogis have to do those five S and they have to do these things that many of them were brought up as brans. And so then they have to eat meat, have to drink wine and have to have sex. They have to what, what, what's our three and, um, Mona might turn a <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:11:16 Might turn
Speaker 0 00:11:17 And probably some moodra,
Speaker 2 00:11:18 Uh, drink wine moodra
Speaker 0 00:11:21 Urine and feces. I think that stuff like that, that's not one of the, no, no. It's supposed to eat pieces
Speaker 2 00:11:24 And euros. That's a difference.
Speaker 0 00:11:26 So, no, that's see. I think it's in there. I pure things. Yeah. Well, at least the Buddhist do that's okay. <laugh> because one, shouldn't make a distinction between gold and shit. If one is really true non so, but of course it's not nourishing to eat extra. So therefore it's only a matter of breaking the taboo. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:11:45 It's meaning the taboo, however, recently. Yes. Um, uh, what they call fecal implants are being used in me. That's true. If someone has bad flora in their guts and
Speaker 0 00:11:56 That's true, they do that. Um, but they also sell Vermont dirt pills.
Speaker 2 00:12:00 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:12:00 But there was a Cita, you know, the, to I tell the survey, the Cita ands that Amond told me
Speaker 2 00:12:05 No, no,
Speaker 0 00:12:06 Well, there was a Cita Hindu SITA, you know, like Anot Cita, probably in Banaras. There was a famous case in the sixties when this friend of mine a great painter, perhaps I hope he's still alive, but I haven't heard from Europe, Alan Atwell, great, great painter. And he was there and he said, there was this notorious case of the CI who lived in a park, in Banaras in one of those sort of squares, where they had restaurants and things and shops, you know, but he always hung out in that sort of park in that sort of central park there. And he would poop wherever. He felt like it <laugh>. And the merchants were upset because it was driving away, middle class, sort of, you know, clean cleanliness, oriented customers. So they hung him up in court. And, uh, he, he didn't want a lawyer to defend, represent him, you know, for creating public disorder, whatever he was doing.
Speaker 0 00:12:53 And he just sat there finally. And they had all these witnesses about, well, he pooped in front of my restaurant and he pooped in front of my jewel shop. And he pooped on my front of my ice cream stand and they really freaking out. And then finally, finally they finished their prosecution. And, uh, he and my judge said to him, well, Baba, do you have anything to say in your defense? And he said, bring me a plate and a knife and fork <laugh>, which they did. Cuz they respect Sal was in, in India. And he took that plate, a knife fork. And he pooped right there in the, in the courtroom, on the plate. And then he calmly proceeded to eat it. And he said, there's nothing impure here. And the judge said case club, it was exonerated only in India in the sixties. I don't think it was
Speaker 2 00:13:42 In sixties. Yeah. They what? Yeah. They've devolved since
Speaker 0 00:13:45 Then. I think they've devolved since, but Bel used to tell that story with great <inaudible>, which I, I share. And he was not a Buddhist. He was a
Speaker 2 00:13:56 Yogi. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:13:57 Because it's beyond this kind of Buddhist actually in such good there, the bow approach on bow, that word secondary, the word Buddha, they didn't use that word themselves. The Buddhist, they were AGAs or non or <inaudible> or something like that. The insider and outsider, they call themselves, they didn't, there was no word for Buddhist versus non Buddhist or something like that. They were inside some practice or outside that's all and level. There's absolutely no difference. They say there's no difference between shva Vinu and <inaudible>, which is the, the yoga form of blue. But it's also blue.
Speaker 2 00:14:34 Yeah. Interesting blue.
Speaker 0 00:14:36 The blue, the dark blue is the ultimate reality color. It's ultimate reality. Perfection color is a very dark blue,
Speaker 2 00:14:43 Black like, like a monsoon cloud,
Speaker 0 00:14:46 Like a monsoon cloud. And they say it is the transmutation of the poison, the glacier, the addictive poison of hatred. So interesting. The most fierce of the poison is hatred is the one that, because hatred has a tends to destroy things. So it's the energy that destroys the, takes a part, the facade of the Samara of the structural world of suffering it, demolishes that work. And that's why I said that's least that's it would be a Buddhist explanation of
Speaker 2 00:15:16 It. Yeah. Well shva has the, the blue throat.
Speaker 0 00:15:18 Oh, he has ha yeah. From
Speaker 2 00:15:20 Yeah, from drinking or he didn't swallow it. He didn't drink it. Then
Speaker 0 00:15:24 He did it. Well,
Speaker 2 00:15:25 He, he only took it to here and held it. I see. In the Aash
Speaker 0 00:15:30 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:15:30 That he didn't spit it out. He didn't swallow it, but
Speaker 0 00:15:33 He's totally cool.
Speaker 2 00:15:34 Yeah. <laugh> it's own blue.
Speaker 0 00:15:36 <laugh> right. Absorbing the poison, but that connects to them. I'm sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:15:44 So interest Sheila
Speaker 0 00:15:45 Is a Yogi. It actually interfered with his love life because Uma was not sure. She really wanted to like snuggle up to some guy smeared with sedentary human bone Ash <laugh> with snakes in his hair and like blazing flame in his third eye, she used to have to, she, she would play drip poker with him or dice and win every time and make him take off to snake and wash.
Speaker 2 00:16:10 <laugh> a
Speaker 0 00:16:12 Shot. Yes. She domesticated the man. She did. There's a wonderful poem. ER, wrote a Marvel's poem. It's really poem.
Speaker 2 00:16:25 Another side note is the word SWAT Marrama is beautiful. Name the composer of the text. Cuz when you say SWMA you're meaning the self of the self cuz SWAT is another reflexive pronoun. That means self right?
Speaker 0 00:16:40 His own self.
Speaker 2 00:16:40 So it means the self of the self right now. The self of myself. When I talk, talking about myself, it's one thing. But if I start talking about the self of myself, that's right then, you know, I'm really
Speaker 0 00:16:49 Talking, it's the real self of the full self.
Speaker 2 00:16:51 Right. And Ramma, it means the pleasure. So it's the pleasure of the self of the self is the guy's name's what Ramma right.
Speaker 0 00:16:59 Who I think, I think is Arama was long meaning addressing pleasure.
Speaker 2 00:17:05 Oh yeah. SWAT know. Yeah. Could be either Arama or Ramma
Speaker 0 00:17:10 Cuz. So he's enjoying pleasure in his own self enjoying pleasure in his own self because there was non the non-dual the non well Buddhist would say yogis would say that that ultimate reality of bra bra hood or near what they would call Nirvana, they could also call Nirvana being blown away. That ultimate reality is not known by ordinary dualistic, conceptual cognition or understanding what we would normally think of understanding. It is known only by BLIS. The subjectivity that knows that is that expensive, you know, ecstatic bliss where if it blows, it blows you out kind of, you know, so it's not a matter of you clutch onto it. You give yourself to it to bliss. So they, the way they express that is that bliss is what knows it
Speaker 2 00:17:58 Mm-hmm <affirmative>
Speaker 0 00:17:59 Right. Yeah. But he's kind of nice Soma. His own self is bliss.
Speaker 2 00:18:03 Actually his own self is,
Speaker 0 00:18:04 And he's enjoying, he's enjoying the universe
Speaker 2 00:18:08 And out of his compassion mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, he, um, dispels the, the darkness from Brunk, bam Bauma. Um, so, and a Brunk Brunia means
Speaker 2 00:18:28 Bad philosophy mm-hmm <affirmative> or bad views mm-hmm <affirmative> and there are thousands and th they're just endless numbers of bad views. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and many of us entertain many thousands of them throughout the day mm-hmm <affirmative> and these are just bad philosophies mm-hmm <affirmative> in which you're not really seeing reality. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and so to dispel that, and so not only is it referring to between the schools, which are always arguing with each other, right. You know, Igar yoga versus AGA yoga and it's like, give me a break. Okay. And then SHEO versus SUNY, you know, it was like same. Um, but, uh, so not only there mm-hmm <affirmative> amongst ourselves and we, between our, you know, our, we make many theoretical cells throughout the day. Mm-hmm <affirmative> many different points of view mm-hmm <affirmative> and all of them are merely point they're all context dependent mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> and they're all empty of any absolute mm-hmm position. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and therefore this will cut through that. The, the, the light of Hatta yoga, the mm-hmm APA of, of yoga will cut right through that.
Speaker 0 00:19:37 Mm-hmm <affirmative> the lamp of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> can I say something about compassionate since I mentioned bliss in the sense that the non-dual realization is such that the person who realizes it achieves permanent total bliss. Right. But there has, there's an awkward element in that bliss of the non list in the sense that they perceive their oneness with all beings complete. So therefore, while they feel blissful and they see all beings as blissful, they cannot ignore that most of the beings see themselves as not blissful, but are dissatisfied. They're suffering. They're held in darkness they're and the key darkness is they think they're separate self. Their self that is separate from the universe is real, is really real. And therefore they suffer, right? Like me, I think I'm really real. I'm Bob Thurmond. And I think you're all different than me and you outnumber the hell out of me <laugh> and all other beings in the world outnumber me even more so since, since, and then there's the ticks <laugh> and there's the, the bacterias of
Speaker 2 00:20:53 Those, what, there are billions of ticks and billions billions to the billionth power of bacteria.
Speaker 0 00:20:59 Exactly, exactly. So, so I'm freaked out and I'm suffering. I'm struggling with this other, which is the world by my delusion of being myself suffer from them. And that that division is absolute. And there's only battle across the line. Really. Sometimes there's friendliness. Mom liked me. <laugh> you know, my, my, my lover liked me. My baby liked me, but it's for a while. All for wild. But, but mostly everybody doesn't think as much of me as I think of myself <laugh> so I'm in, I'm in conflict with the world in a way on a, on a primal level. And, and even there are philosophies that say, that's the way it is, you know? And you just have to like have no nuclear weapons or something. And, and, but the non blue person sees that. And yet they're frustrated by the fact that they cannot blast that suffering and that delusion out of the people and sort of bliss bomb them.
Speaker 0 00:21:57 Because the energy of that bliss, if they sort of just radiated it, the person who feels separate would feel invaded by it, overwhelmed by it. And they would tighten it up even more and they would become more freaked out and they would, they would crucify the blissful being or waste them and somehow do them in if they could. And if not, they would run away from them or whatever. So that's where the compassion comes in the compassion. We only think that being compassionate is somehow to just climb into other people's misery. But that is that wouldn't help them. That's not really compassion. That's just joining their, their suffering compassion is completely feeling their suffering and not feeling it at the same time, keeping the bliss. So as to see, to act and engage in just such a way as to get them to rediscover that their suffering is actually bliss.
Speaker 0 00:22:53 You follow me. So therefore, the compassionate someone who's really self enjoying himself to compassion, meaning he's feeling that we are there. You're not self enjoying yourself enough as you should. And if you could, and as you will. So he writes a book giving you some message to do that. Do you follow? So it's very important to note that you genuine compassion requires that your duty, if you wanna be a compassionate person, you have to be happy because you have to know what the happiness is that the other person you're compassionate about is missing. Otherwise it's like, Ooh, I'm so sorry for that person. But like, I, I suck too. So we both suck and I'm nice. So I say something nice, but you it's nothing. It's not real compassion. It's some kind of, it's some kind of wimpy pity, uh, which then just leads you into more self pity. Whereas compassion is a dynamic thing based on your happiness and realizing other person could have, but they have to learn how to do it. And you write a book. Okay. <laugh> as he did, is that all right? Yes. I just felt because we were talking about bliss and people get nervous about bliss. They do. It's illegal.
Speaker 2 00:24:03 Well, you get guilty about it. You get
Speaker 0 00:24:06 It's guilty, guilty. And that's cuz it's illegal.
Speaker 2 00:24:08 It's shameful.
Speaker 0 00:24:09 Yeah. Except in Colorado. They're okay.
Speaker 2 00:24:13 Colorado and Washington,
Speaker 0 00:24:15 Washington,
Speaker 0 00:24:20 Jerry Brown's hometown. Okay. So, so, so I just wanted to say that. Okay. So he composes the ha like a torch to dispel it, the darkness of unrealistic worldviews and the worst unrealistic worldview that we all have here, just to let you know where I'm coming from and what, what is one takeaway that we it's the specialty of the house of me? <laugh> the idea that you will be nothing after you die. That is the disease of materialism slash nihilism. That probably all of you yogis are free out, but that is the worst of the false views of the unrealistic views that the most dark of them. And, um, and even if we think we believe in reincarnation, we have to excavate in our subconscious about how we felt. The last time we heard Richard Dawkins give a lecture or something, or some book, Sam Harris, you know, attacking religious people and things like that and realized that we are brought up by science teachers to think that they have authority in saying that they know, and they have discovered that the mind is an epiphenomenon of the brain and that therefore you don't have a future life when you just blow up your brain.
Speaker 0 00:25:37 You're nothing. And you, therefore, you are essentially nothing right now. Cuz anybody can blow their brain right. The second. And they'd be nothing according to them, but that's totally false. You're never gonna be nothing. Okay. You have, you have the guarantee that's Manela mountain retreat stands behind treat stand behind <laugh> we guarantee
Speaker 2 00:25:58 <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:26:00 None of us can ever be nothing. It's not possible. Okay. I'm sorry, because it mentioned the darkness of wrong. Yeah. Okay. Now he gives the lineage. You want do the lineage? I think we should pay how much, but, but it's up to you. You be good on this.
Speaker 2 00:26:17 Well, it starts out with mat and Gorak mm-hmm <affirmative> so both of these are very famous, uh, cities and uh, Gorak has a whole lineage. Uh, and in fact, there's another book that's equivalent to this that is, um, composed by correction, ion some heat done
Speaker 0 00:26:38 Some of these people like a Shara, you know, these are the among the eighties Sitan are they of the, of the Indian sort of tan tradition.
Speaker 2 00:26:48 A few of these I've heard of and
Speaker 0 00:26:51 Shara is, um, is an important, the Buddhist have a set of what they call 84, great AEPS or Maha sits, uh, great attained ones and mat and Shava and NATA NA they call him is NATA could be NATA. So it's some, they, and they, they don't make a difference between Buddhism and Hinduism. Yeah. GU I'm not sure is in the Buddhist list, but probably is, but I, I don't recognize it right away. Yeah. And I sort of city Budha
Speaker 2 00:27:21 City, bud,
Speaker 0 00:27:22 Bud himself. They're claiming, as I know, I hope so. Yeah. Happy to be claimed
Speaker 2 00:27:27 Canta Kaka swear city party charter party that could city part could be a Buddhist Puja cap cap, Vita, Kaka, Chan. So many it's just like names and names.
Speaker 0 00:27:51 Are any of these female? Do we know
Speaker 2 00:27:53 Charlie Cho is a fi uh, Charlie that's a Baki is feminine.
Speaker 0 00:28:00 Could be there's the 84 in Buddhism. And they have a bad record. Only four,
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Only four
Speaker 0 00:28:05 Are female of the 84, but about 60% of them have Gus who were female ESE or ESE or something. But somehow they don't get mentioned. They didn't write a book, they just shape, you know, they made the guy eat, fish cuts and so on. I mean, they shaped him up, but they don't list him in the lineage except for four, which is, which is wrong, which is bad. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's a residue of chauvinism, I think, in the culture
Speaker 2 00:28:30 Anyway. So we can make up for that. Good.
Speaker 0 00:28:37 So,
Speaker 2 00:28:38 But
Speaker 0 00:28:39 You wanna jump to nine?
Speaker 2 00:28:41 No. Nine. Let's see like a house protecting one from the heat of the sun or, oh, that's a 10. Uh, you can't die. Ma <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative> okay. So these maids are breaking. The skeptic of death are roaming in the universe. This is which
Speaker 0 00:29:06 The sense we were for except is, is it
Speaker 2 00:29:09 They have colored done.
Speaker 0 00:29:11 Oh, NDA
Speaker 2 00:29:12 NDA means there's stopping time.
Speaker 0 00:29:15 Yes. It's the staff of
Speaker 2 00:29:16 Time. Yeah. Which is better than the, the skeptic of death is
Speaker 0 00:29:19 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:29:19 Of not in here,
Speaker 0 00:29:21 The stick.
Speaker 2 00:29:22 So the
Speaker 0 00:29:23 Club, the club of the club of death of time, the club
Speaker 2 00:29:25 Of time, the club of time. Right. Yeah. Young
Speaker 0 00:29:28 Holds that.
Speaker 2 00:29:29 Yeah. And so if you have that NDA club of time or the staff of time. Yeah. So my, just in my mind, my image is that you, the staff of time stops time Uhhuh. Um, but it's also the ultimate weapon that, um, you know, that these, these Lords carry the ultimate weapon, which is time mm-hmm <affirmative> or patience mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, you know, VIU has his Phan, Chuck ground mm-hmm <affirmative>, which he spins on his finger. And then, and it's like a boomerang, it comes right back to the finger, but it slices.
Speaker 0 00:30:08 Right. And Yama carries a club with a skull on the top. Yeah. Which he, which brings death. Yeah. But they broke his sector.
Speaker 2 00:30:18 Yeah. And so what you do is the Shu, the central Shu, NA Uhhuh is the, uh, call it, it breaks time because once prag goes into the, uh, central channel, the Chitta stops constructing time and space
Speaker 0 00:30:36 Uhhuh,
Speaker 2 00:30:37 Which is, which is a construction it's it's merely that mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so that construction of time and space stops mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so what, what does death mean? Mm-hmm <affirmative> and you, you have that experience, the direct experience of that through mm-hmm <affirmative> um, and then they say there's still roaming the universe. So here we are, you know, probably a few of these are mentioned here in this list and we say, whatever
Speaker 0 00:31:03 Happened, they probably, you mean they're around.
Speaker 2 00:31:05 Yeah. Well, they could be right here at the retreat, like tint.
Speaker 0 00:31:08 It's not just on Kenobi who can appear in luminous body, all these sit downs, are there buds there for sure.
Speaker 2 00:31:17 Mm-hmm, <affirmative>
Speaker 0 00:31:18 Roaming the universe and they, they're not really roaming idly. They're roaming to help beings, you know, they're traveling around.
Speaker 2 00:31:27 Yeah. So they're but,
Speaker 0 00:31:28 But can you come back to Saun? So how does Saum oh yeah. That's the second question back in the early verse explains how yoga for the attainment of Roger yoga. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so then that requires in the second verse. So what is, how does, how yoga form a basis of Roger yoga then?
Speaker 2 00:31:46 Okay. So
Speaker 0 00:31:47 He is teaching how to yoga to then entertain Roger yoga. Right.
Speaker 2 00:31:51 So Hotta tends to mean in a lot of the early text, it means force, you know, like if you don't, if you don't just get this by hearing, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative>, um, uh, that, you know, the nature of reality, then we gotta get some exercises for you. Um, <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:32:13 Mm-hmm
Speaker 2 00:32:13 <affirmative> and have we got exercises for you? <laugh> and so, and it's been explained as in this, that ha stands for the sun and TA uh, pal TA, uh, is the moon. And so these are two complimentary opposites. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> two ends of the same stick and that it is a practice of one in the naughty system of taking the, uh, sun channel and the moon channel and, uh, balancing them so that they're simultaneously open in the same way and then shutting them off in order to open the central channel. So the
Speaker 0 00:32:54 Yoga in a way, at the deep level, the yoga of the two is opening the central
Speaker 2 00:32:57 Channel it's to open the central channel through a dialogue between hot and top mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so in our stage of practice, which is raw beginning mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's finding the inhale in the exhale mm-hmm <affirmative> cause they're complimentary opposites mm-hmm <affirmative> or finding the counter action in the primary action or the finding the, what they call the, um, Prty Phare Uhhuh. So above. And so in the
Speaker 0 00:33:29 Antidote
Speaker 2 00:33:30 Realizing, yeah, you start to look at something, you start to look at its Tyk, meaning its contacts or its other wing is wing Uhhuh. And so when you get the op both wings to work Uhhuh, then you get a synthesis between the two things mm-hmm <affirmative>. And that moment of synthesis is STUs the mind because it no longer takes either path mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so the mind is stunned. It doesn't go anywhere, which is nowhere, which is the central channel mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so physically this manifests in the body as a central channel mm-hmm <affirmative> and so all over the body in Hotta yoga were discovering patterns of, you know, either sensation or flow and then systematically creating the counter action of mm-hmm <affirmative> the other wing of it. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and then coming into a, a, a sat state or a contemplative state or a middle path state.
Speaker 2 00:34:29 And so you do that in the, the realm of the PR, uh, in Hotta yoga, through mudras and buns and proma, and then hopefully you can do that also philosophically mm-hmm <affirmative>, which you start to understand conceptual systems as also empty also as needing having context and balance mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so you start to have the same phenomenon intellectually of the middle path mm-hmm <affirmative> and, uh, in all of these, the mind hits what they call the Unani stage mm-hmm <affirmative> or no mind. In other words, the promise stops moving and it's just like, ah, BLIS bliss. And that's the middle path is, is BLIS. And so, and so Roger yoga is the, ah, it's the middle path. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, that's the king. And that's what we're really talking about. And whatever technique you gotta use, whatever you have to balance might be slightly unique to you. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because you have individual circumstances and mm-hmm, <affirmative> slightly unique. Mm-hmm, <affirmative> usually, we're not as unique as we like to think. We are. We're just slightly unique, you know,
Speaker 0 00:35:38 Uhhuh, not even significantly, but then so then the, then the hot yoga is unraveling the nuts and the blocks of the central channel.
Speaker 2 00:35:46 Yes. And
Speaker 0 00:35:47 Opening with which one, then get the Roger yoga
Speaker 2 00:35:49 It's open. And so once your central channel opens and you can taste the Roger yoga, anytime. In other words, the nature of the non-dualism is that any system, even in its plugged up state of all knots and just being on this lower level, mm-hmm <affirmative>, it is composed 100% of Braman mm-hmm <affirmative>, or it is already 100% Shinta mm-hmm <affirmative> BLIS clear light all just as in its actual immediate nature Uhhuh. And you can realize Roger yoga at any moment mm-hmm <affirmative> and I think we all do. We get little hits momentarily. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so, for example, like in this text, it's not quite as clear, it's mentioned a, but you can go into your central channel. You don't have to go into the bottom, like we're working on, you know, get the Kini to mm-hmm <affirmative> stop plugging it up, but you can go right in the, the, uh, executive entrance <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:36:51 Uhhuh
Speaker 2 00:36:52 Right at, at the root of the pallet, which is Uhhuh. And you can do that. Uh, anytime in fact, you don't have to do it. The idea in Roger yoga, and this is what makes funny is it's slightly beyond technique. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, it's, in other words, it's insight into the very nature of technique mm-hmm <affirmative> is being empty. You don't even need it. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's like a joke or something. <laugh> um, and it's something that we get little flashes of. I think every time we like really connect with other people sure. Other beings or two systems meet
Speaker 0 00:37:28 In, in attempt to meet and tantric physiology and the different thing. When you yaw actually you yeah. Yawning, you get the central channel, you verge the product toward the central channel. When you faint, when you fall asleep, you know, those things, all the reason you energize from a yawn is that your draw energy comes out of the central channel or you a little bit open. They usually clamp it shut. And then it's open a little bit right now, how just to have a cushion, the high is the sun, which is the right hand solar channel. And the tide is the moon on the left hand. And is the son identified with the female and the, and the moon identified with the male as in Buddhist?
Speaker 2 00:38:11 TRO? No, it's
Speaker 0 00:38:12 The opposite. It's the opposite
Speaker 2 00:38:15 Ah-huh which is delightful.
Speaker 0 00:38:17 Huh? Because
Speaker 2 00:38:19 It's slightly arbitrary, you know,
