Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:14 Welcome to my podcast. I'm so grateful. Some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house is the Dalai Lama cultural center in America, All best wishes. Have a great day.
Speaker 2 00:00:48 This is episode 278 Shante devas gifts to the world.
Speaker 1 00:01:15 No, it's the second highest, the highest as the president of India, you know, the president is sort of more beyond the sort of Hindu, Utah, terrible Hindu Muslim saying that. Does it go on right now? A days with, with, uh, with, uh, Modi, tell us for what
Speaker 0 00:01:37 You're getting the
Speaker 1 00:01:38 FID mystery. Well there, oh, they said, well, the citation is, um, that I am assisting and bringing back the Buddhist dimension of classical Indian culture to India as India, not as conventional, but as Indian. Yeah. And it is true actually. You know, it's when, when, uh, when I was attracted to India, I was not actually running after Tibetans. So initially it's just that they were the only ones who knew about is that man and the sixties, or they were bringing it back to himself because Tibet should be just the adjunct of India or the ancient things are stored and hidden away from the invaders.
Speaker 1 00:02:25 And today I wanted to give you a practice. I gave you one practice yesterday. I started with giving you a practice. I, then I, then we're going to chat a little bit. And the first practice say here you remember was to conquer anger by insisting on being cheerful. And that is to say, be forceful when you're not angry is the team where you're cheerful. And then in a very forcefully, humorous form, humorously forceful when you're dealing with difficulties that would otherwise make you angry, you know, and that light shine to demo, just throw a touch-up pack on it again, that light. And that light has the one whole thing he says, come what may, I'll not upset by cheerful, happiness of mind and the chapter. This is the chapter six of his wonderful guide into the bodhisattva way, or the boat is of alive. The enlightening being life lightning, Shiro life is as much. So come Lord. And they are not upset. My cheerful, happiness of mine. Dejection never brings me what I want. My virtue will be warped and marred by it. And then I don't like this translation too well, but anyway, it says, if there's a remedy, when trouble strikes, why get upset about it retranslated. And if there's no remedy when troubles spikes, well, I get upset about it in addition.
Speaker 1 00:03:54 So that's a so great. The zoo it's important that they try to vary the translation, but the whole point was it's the same expression, you know, just the added addition of a negative. So it's like, if you, if, if there's a remedy, if you could do something brilliant, if you can do something about something bad happening, then why be upset about it? Just do it. If you can't do anything about something bad happening, then why be upset about it? Additionally. So either way don't be upset about it. That's so great. And then it says, uh, said something about, uh, uh, no evil is that well, the basic overall thing is no evil. Is there similar to actually maybe hatred is even better than anger. Sometimes anger can be in English. Nowadays can be both. It could just be, be heated up to, to do something forceful or it could be when you've lost yourself to anger.
Speaker 1 00:05:02 When you become sure, it's when you lost your judgment, because you're, you're just become a tool of your, of your, your fury and you break things, you know, that you value. And you say things that you deeply regret later because you are not yourself. You know, you're under control of this, of this demonic, glacier addiction and people translated. I used her translator affliction, the clay shot. That's a great word there. Close. I'd say love yoga Sutra, of course, because it it's basic Buddhism. And it comes from the verb clearish, which means to twist. And therefore it means something in your mind that twists your being and makes you unhappy. And I usually translate as affliction, but that's wrong because the affliction is the actual suffering. Whereas a cliche is what causes the suffering. And that's like an addictive thing. You know, like anger comes to when you feel weak in a situation and you feel like it's going wrong or what's going right, is being blocked either one.
Speaker 1 00:06:10 And you feel not strong enough to fix that. And so then anger whispers to you in your own voice. Well, if I flip out, they'll get out of my way. You know, that I'll be able to fix that data. They'll all be strong, you know? Cause I'll be flipped out. They'll be really scared of me and whatever it is, you know? And so then you flip out and then you're like clumsy as hell. They make it worse instead. And then you're very exhausted quickly. You get an adrenaline rush and then you're exhausted. So you lose it, martial arts, if you get angry. So the thing is if it's addictive, because you do feel a surge of energy from it initially, but unlike an addiction, it may leaves you exhausted and then you want more in them or they're not satisfied. Okay. So that's the end then the third.
Speaker 1 00:07:01 So the second one is that knowing the bigger picture of reality, and then the third one is, uh, uh, basically it's called non retaliation or non Benjamin's literally cause they putting it very minimalist way of describing it. But it's really forgiveness actually. And it's where you, even when you're harmed by someone, you'll get to the point where you blame yourself, the victim. They never blame anybody else, the victim when somebody else harms them. But if you are the victim and blame yourself, karmically, that strengthens you actually, I know it's very counterintuitive and weird, but it does. If you would know how to do it in the sense that you say, well, okay, I'm, I'm I'm with this person. I put myself in front of this idiot. Who's harming me. And that was my mistake. And, and then you, so you look at what you can do something about by saying that I must be somewhere at fault.
Speaker 1 00:08:05 I'm in this place. I'm was born in this town, whatever it is. And you ignore the other one, you realize they're just a victim of anger on you. And you said, nevermind, the helpless, I'm not bothered. I'm not going to waste my energy being angry or thinking of how to get back at them. I'm going to do some more about myself. This will never happen again and blah, blah, blah. So you break a cycle and people who harm you inevitably. So, and you do that by using karma yourself. You know, you say, well, in a previous life, I must have been bowed to this person. So they're already good. So good. So now they're hurting me and now I will never have this problem again. And I don't want to hear about that on the person. So in other words, you wall yourself off in a way from the Harmer and you strengthen yourself by forgiveness.
Speaker 1 00:08:55 So forgiveness really, you do it's as a self-interest in forgiveness. It doesn't do anything for all the other ideas. I don't appreciate it even unless they're dying or something. And then they're begging you to forgive them. And even then it's not your forgiveness that matters, you know, it's them repenting, you know? So, so, but forgive forgiveness is the psychology of it. It's really brilliant. And it has to do with this way, which is one of the few things of the takeaway. A lot of you were rom Doss people. You are creative people to love. You have Bhakti, and you want to know about the wisdom of Bhakti. Yes. Well, you will get this wisdom more immediately. A lot of different wisdom will come to you. When you submit to causation is sort of how I could call it. You decide to surrender to causation. You get out of worrying about all kinds of weird things and you realize you are a cause and effect, which that means karma.
Speaker 1 00:09:54 You are a causal process and you've always been that. And you always will be that. And it's been beginning less and it is endless also. So that means that we have one, this fear and this view of, of evolution, which is what karma is a theory of evolution long thousands of years before Darwin. And in this theory of evolution, which is a beautiful description, really? It's not an absolute, they don't, but it's really a beautiful, what it means then is that we are like, self-made humans in some sense, we're like a self-made billionaire, evolutionary billionaires, every single one of us, you know, because we did billions of those kinds of little things in much less free embodiments and situations. If we ever fell that we did, because beginning let's, you can say, not that anything didn't happen, you have to embrace that. You have to, every we've done everything, you know, cause infinity kind of flattens out all relational.
Speaker 1 00:11:00 It's relational descriptions, but recently we've done great stuff and we've done self-restraint and self-transcendence in all kinds of ways that are hardly imaginable. At least somehow it got to be these amazing humans. And then within being human, we got to be the kind of human that has leisure. That has idea of liberation that has even evolutionary idea of liberation. Although the materialists have sacrificed that again, by saying that we have no mind to choose. And so we're just a complete, we're like tribals again, you know, we're like animals, again, we're just robots and compact men. Some genes are running around, pushing us around. They have no freedom at all. I mean, that's really pathetic. It's supposed to be modern. And actually it's a collapsed to loss of the human special thing. Actually, what makes a human a great opportunity of being able to choose how to live and how to, how to love men, how to really make love and altruism and love the unify that with your life force, which actually then unifies you with ultimate reality.
Speaker 1 00:12:08 Part of my art, my inaction, part of my art that is giving up it's part of my hood. You know, that means not paramount living in space, like some sort of psychotic talking to no one, but I'm everything but that, and I don't feel guilty leaving people behind because I'm not even here myself. I kind of, those are kind of like in that first verse I read yesterday who thinks that Buddha is out detached from everything someplace, you know, they'll never be out. They don't see the border. That's not bad, but you know, that's not what this is. The great is. And sages are, you know, they are not in some, you know, unfortunately too many people are so escapist by nature when they get spiritual that they, of course they glamorize and they romanticize the idea of being cast. Let me out of here, you know, type of thing, somebody, or I'm just completely gone somebody and there's no people, there are no body, so I don't have any pain.
Speaker 1 00:13:05 Ah, okay, well, anyway, that was practice, but I veered off to the preciousness, how precious every one of you is as a human and you know, the hardest thing, which I think I almost made me after 50 years, I really sort of got it. One day is the suffering of the gods. There's too much to desire to be a God. And in this, even in Buddha said Hindu culture, oh God. And really we've also been gods and pleasure gods. Well, you know, as I told you about the six levels and the top part where you're so sated, all you could do is be a lawyer because you don't even have a drive anymore. And then the form realm gods, where you're just completely cool out and you're just like rabbi or you're just pure and everything. It's like a big energy thing. And you have like permeate, you'll have a hard skin.
Speaker 1 00:14:02 You're just a big energy field, basically, really. And it's all golden and sunny and um, but what's wrong with that? Well, it gets boring and you, you leaving and, you know, cause you're also really smart when you got your big goals and you have great merit, you have been tremendously generous and saintly to become a form realm. God, and you don't have a real loss and hate and anger and things like that. But you realize you can't do that much about beings in hell, being humans who are suffering and destroying each other and all kinds of other levels of being. So your sort of state is apart from it all. And it's a huge long state actually. And so in a way it seems like it's going to be endless. So, but you know, in a way that is not endless because you know, again, your causal being you're you achieve that state of Brahma hood or Brahma Brahma bodied hood at the 17 levels of it, which are elaborately described by the great Indian, Psychonauts the ones who traveled in subtle body at all these areas. And you was just there a long time. And then your mind gets really dull.
Speaker 1 00:15:26 And then somehow, somehow unbeknownst to you, you're going to leave. And it's like someone who's lived forever in a penthouse triplex, all wrapped in golden cloth and fur and everything. And without temporarily for a few years without sickness and human, but won't be long on you and playing, but this will be thousand billions of years, many years, no Aons and then suddenly they're going and there's nothing, they much they can do about it. They don't know what to do. They don't know where they're going. And some ancient karma behind them as also internet evolutionary momentum. And they're going to fall someplace and they don't know where to land, but formula not so bad, but they're the ones who are really in trouble. The two who are really in trouble are the, the formless round day. It is, there's also zillions of formulas around eighties. And I had this experience in, uh, when I was in a conference and I suddenly realized that I'm such a chicken, chicken liver person and the ivory tower and scared of Araya or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:16:35 I'd scared of pain that I must have been a Yogi many times or Yogi many previous lives and achieved a formless realm, somebodies infinite space, infinite consciousness, seemingly nothingness and beyond consciousness and unconsciousness. One of those four formulas realms, where I've, where when you get there, you don't think you have a body. You actually do have a very subtle energy body, but you don't even perceive it yourself. I hardly, and your mind is completely crass. And you know, I do like the air bass face, et cetera, and put up as very clear Buddha's first two Yogi teachers, Rishi teachers. First one taught them how to reach the plane of seeming nothingness like existentialist, but visceral likes the sense of, I know really being nothing and then beyond being nothing and being something a little more subtle than that. And you go there because when your infinite consciousness and that sound a boring and it's sort of bright, of course your it's your security, you're an inmate.
Speaker 1 00:17:39 You're an endless explosion, like a Pulser because to reach infinity from having been in a separated individual, you thought you're sort of explosive. You know, you know, you, you know you from before that your infinite space and that's where I big relaxed, you know, big, hard release. But then, you know, your mind wants to master this pace because you have a momentum of wanting to do that. Cause you're used to be subject object reality. So then it tries to expand to be all this space. And then you feel you are all of it. But since it goes toward infinity, there's always more beyond somewhere where you're aware and you don't know what that is. And so you're kind of explosive. It's like, I think I've related to Rogers. You know, the first one is like Satta. The first one is a perfect embodiment or kind of visceral realization of Sutta moonlit.
Speaker 1 00:18:35 And that's related to Moonlight. These are actually in the book of the dead X and then the other one is like explosive. So then it has a little reddish fit layer to it. It's like blood or sun, you know, it's more female. It's like, I'm, I'm all in it and chalky. And then that gets tiresome. So then darkness. Oh great. That's how it sleep. Nothing does is beckons, you know, and then dark. And then you go for that. And then somehow that's boring. And then, well at least awareness, not awareness. I don't want something even more subtle and then not one. So the point is then you're when you entered that as a yoga or yoga, if you're not forewarned of, and you haven't really become committed to causality, which is all Buddha asks of people. So that's not a religion, is it who's supposed to be committed to causation scientists, right? That's that's the brown rule of science is look at the causes of saints and what a huge revolution in human history art was when, when I believe it in the Western people think it was the Greeks who did that part hundreds of years before the Greek doctor who is credited with sort of analyzing things in terms of causation, instead of in terms of the gods, will Athena or hero or Jews or somebody's or Apollo or Mars or mercury, no, it's called a bunch of causes. You know, Buddha Buddha's was celebrated as O'Meara Dharma .
Speaker 1 00:20:14 He had that of all things that rise from causes the realize the one said, what are the causes and how to interfere with them, how to terminate them. And that was the teaching of the great, the great vacationer seeker. not a setting. So, so then if you know, causation, you realize that, okay, I'm in this seeming of complete freedom, you know, vast space, vast consciousness, even nothing, even beyond all that. And, but I came here because of the protocols or process of developing the refinement of my samadhi and Dee and detaching from all attachments and letting go of everything and are going past the deaths even, and the bracing, it might even be because when you're hit nothing, you feel you might die and you don't care, you know, and you're forced you're don't because luckily nothing is nothing. Or it seems like someday. So, but if you don't have that understanding of causation, that sort of commitment about it, then you might think this is my final destination.
Speaker 1 00:21:32 And if you do that, you become a deity of those realms. And there's no limit to the population of those realms because nobody has a body. So they don't bump into each other. They don't require space. They're beyond space, pure mental thing, timetable and long time they're there. And then what they do is they lose completely sense of body and even more important, you know, because we are three levels of human beings and every Indian tradition says that we are three levels of being physical level, verbal level and mental level. I mean, of course you could say it's all one and in some way it is, but the, but relatively on the other hand, there are these divisions and the speech level is a very important level. That's a mantra, that's language. That's, that's, that's reasoning. That's reasonable understanding. That's really speech is really powerful.
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Also. It's also multi personal because we understand each other, not completely because we each have different connotations with whatever we say and it's perfect. It's all great and perfect, but we do somewhat understand it for the, so we share minds with others who speaking. So when you speak, it's a big privilege when someone listens to you and when you listen to someone else, you open your mind to them and then their thought occupies your mind. When you read an engine book, then she, you know, someone reaches out to you from the eighth century and helps you by telling you who did cheer up.
Speaker 1 00:23:08 The evolutionary karma theory is so beautiful. I want to tell you this it's so it's such a beautiful science. Okay. So now I want to give you another practice instead of rambling her way. I apologize and verse 90 of chapter eight, which is the meditation chapter in Shanti Deva. And by the way, this book, if you, if you ever, if there's any book you will live with in life as really great, it's not a religious book, it's just how to manage your mind and your life. I'd be happy. You know, it's really incredible. So he says strive at first and the first 89 are just sort of preparatory. And they were like working on the motivation of meditating, you know, what would be the proper motivation for yourself and others, and that you're doing it for everyone to make your vibe, you know, in the ripple of the pond of our interior active human beings, animal beings who are sending out a good vibe, you know, and so you're meditating.
Speaker 1 00:24:09 It's a way of creating like a little pebble of peace in the pond surface, you know, to ripple outward. And that altruism is a major motive. And then being detached from your body as a big motive, getting rid of your glamorization self glamorization of your skin and bones as that wonderful, uh, kudo V Mulana under his name, the guru of RA Rob Robert savada, I've been reading. That is so amazing that God is my brother. He's my guru. I don't know if he's the one and it's just incredible. And so he says skin and bones, I don't care about my skin and bones. It'll say useless. It's just, it's going to be burnt in the cremation Pyre. You know, so, and that's in mindfulness practice. I bet a lot of you have practiced. Mindfulness is the big thing nowadays and everybody's selling it and it is great, but in a way, they don't give you the very first focus of mindfulness, which they miss translators foundation of focus of mindfulness.
Speaker 1 00:25:21 The very first one is on the body. And the very first outcome of that is to be good, be resolved by your body, to be completely, really, very negative and to be free of it. It's you stop focusing so much know about it? Do you know what I mean? That doesn't mean not take care of it, but it means just to be free of it. And they never share that with people. They'd skipped that one down in cabins and he does the body scan where you sort of are in your body, you know, your feet, which is that's also useful. It's good, but they've got the reason for the body scan in the mindfulness Sutra. If you actually read the Buddha's original guided meditation, is that you realize that you were a heap of junk heap of carpet, weight, walking people garbage and nevermind. And so you completely detached from that. I'm sorry. I apologize. But that's the case. And then you meditate like they have what mindfulness thing, where you see yourself as a corpse and you imagine yourself in the first day of decomposition and the second day in certain days before day, or even with the tuxedo and the embalming fluid and the live shake out a little Rouge or whatever, you know, and they were wearing a little frock or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:26:50 Anyway, Lowe's is sort of collapsed a little on one side. People come and look at you and they say, oh, poor Bob. Oh, I miss him so much. And then, but unfortunately you have become telepathic and you were like a ghost floating around it. There's the Bardo had you given up trying to get back in the body. It's just not working anymore. You fill out and then you read their mind. And underneath that, oh, poor about, they say good riddance. Once they get to do with his Tesla, we'll get the Tesla and they'll tell you not to be upset. And then there's toxins in books. That's everybody's ambivalent. And they will have like five things in their mind that they don't, they don't necessarily adopted them, but they're there anyway. So, so anyway, they leave that out, but otherwise it's great. So, so then this detachment thing is very helpful and important, but it doesn't mean you go and like kill yourself.
Speaker 1 00:27:46 It just means you don't have a certain degree of, of like the extra degree. We have a Testament to your body. And actually that lets the body after all. When is it that the body is most refreshed and happy is when we can't fuss over it because we're asleep. And then the door opens and the infinite energy of the loving universe call it, God, call it clear light of the board, whatever you want to call. It comes in like recharges yourself. And up to a point over a number of years, it cleans the plaque out of your brain. So you could remember your name until you can't know anyway. So body does well. We leave it alone. Okay. So strive it. But then after that, this is the practice I want to give you strive at first to meditate upon the sameness of yourself and others.
Speaker 1 00:28:41 And you could translate that Symitar as equality. This could be democratic meditation upon the quality of yourself and others enjoy and sorrow all are equal. Thus be guardian of all. As you guard yourself, the hand and other limbs are many and distinct, but all are one. The body to be kept unguarded, likewise different things in their joys, different beings in their joys and sorrows are like me or one in wanting happiness. So this practice is called the equal exchange of self and other. And, but what that means is the cultivation of empathy and ultimately of compassion, but of empathy is the middle of the energy of compassion. You know, it provides the, this whole energy of it. It is it's compassion. It's more than empathy, but it completely embraces empathy. Don't listen to people who might wrongly say that compassion is separate from empathy. Oh, if you have empathy, you are going to be too tired and exhausted.
Speaker 1 00:30:01 It'll be terrible and don't have empathy. That's wrong. You can't get true compassion without empathy. Empathy is all important. I love that lady in MIT who didn't wouldn't join my team because she was over empathetic. She had just published a book and she was overwhelmed with all the events of the book tour online. And what's her name? A brilliant woman who writes about empathy at MIT is a psychologist. I'm sorry. Now my plaque didn't get cleared up today. Can't remember her name, but she's really nice, wonderful person. And so on was one. So, so then you realize, so, so what it really means is that exchange of self-preoccupation for other preoccupation, or that means selfishness for altruism. So you, you, you systematically meditated this doesn't, you don't have to be sitting cross legged and peaceful and sitting all plucked out, et cetera, to do this, you do it also going and walking around, but you get it going.
Speaker 1 00:31:03 It's useful to sit, meditate properly. Yes. As part of the thing you've got to tell you kind of get started with it, but then it becomes part of your daily life actually. And, and it's not dependent upon a particular posture or whatever we do the hands. Yeah. So, so all our, like me, all one and Monte habit, it's like, so you look at everyone and you say, well, I don't want to have the ceiling for me. I don't want to have a terrible pain in my back or foot or whatever. You know, I don't want to have a heart attack and everybody else doesn't want to too. So we're all the same old sitting here wanting to stay happy and peaceful and painless and not have pain. That's all exactly the same. And none of that, each one of us thinks I deserve not to have pain.
Speaker 1 00:31:47 And each one of us is upset when we do. And why am I having pain? You know, we feel like that. So we get pained about having pain, even with double it that way. And we're all the same like that. So we're just equal like that. Right. That's the first day just like I had this hand painted and also this handles all my pain and I don't want either one to have pain. How can I keep this hand from putting it on the hot pot, on the frying pan, on the stove top? I don't think I've been so nice to my hat. I, because I'm empathetic with my hand. No, I don't think that I don't. I just, it was, I feel the pain. So that's what I, it's just a natural thing to not want my hand to feel pain. Right? This pain of mine does not afflict or cause discomfort to another's body.
Speaker 1 00:32:34 And yet this pain is hard for me to bear because I clean and it from my own. Now this is translation is never a translator is never satisfied with anybody else's, but there really is a little bit mistake because shunted ever, when he writes, he really gets into our minds because he anticipates our own doubts. You see? So actually what, the first two lines of this verse har is his own mind talking to him saying, well, come on, my pain doesn't hurt anybody else. So why should I get involved with, and their pain is not hurting me. So why should I be involved? It's like a little bit of a doubt to say, and then he, but then he challenges that by saying this, and yet this pain is hard for me to bear because I clean and take it for my own. And this may surprise you unless you are a veteran meditator, but it is quite possible to dissociate yourself from your own pain under hypnosis.
Speaker 1 00:33:33 You know, there's a famous thing where they put a match on the hand, the person doesn't feel it. And even the skin doesn't blister, if they don't do it for too long, when they're under a certain hypnosis, there's a trick that they do, but it, it works. And then meditatively to some degree or totally, you can completely ignore a pain. And although it's, your nerves are feeling it, supposedly all our experience, the mind is interpreting and labeling and constructing. And we are in a way responsible for what we sense. It isn't like the object has an absolute way of presenting itself and it's different automatically. And it's lucky that we do feel pain because then we don't cut ourselves. We don't burn ourselves and so on. So it's part of our way of living, but we can learn the power of meditation is such that if directed and really intensively educated in how to do it, which should be part of everybody's education in every school, in the world.
Speaker 1 00:34:34 Actually, in fact, not just in some yogis or India, everyone should be meditating. It should be taught to do it. It's not religious. It's how to manage yourself, how to manage your mind and even your perceptions and be responsible for your interpretation element. That's in every perception. But anyway, he's just saying you don't, you feel it because you are structuring it that way. And you have chosen to empathize with yourself in a way you had a choice about that. It is possible to not feel pain actually by mine, which is actually a defect. Deek could be a defect actually in it, but it's possible. So he says, well, or other beings pain, he stays on the normal level though. Then he moves. It says and other beings pain. I do not feel. And yet because I take them for myself. There are suffering as mine and therefore hard to bear.
Speaker 1 00:35:26 And of course, none of us would disagree. You're in love with someone. If you love them, then they are in pain. Then you feel that pain, your child is wailing and howling, you know, and you know, your breasts start to pour with milk. Even men have been known to leak. And so we can empathize and teammates, we empathize and people in military and empathize with their platoon members. And so on. Therefore he says to himself, I'll dispel the pain of others for it is simply pain, just like my own and others. I will aid and benefit for. They are living beings. Like I am with my body. Since I had other beings, both in wanting happiness are equal and alike. What difference is there to distinguish us that I should strive to have my bliss alone since I and other beings, Bose in fleeing, suffering are equal and alive.
Speaker 1 00:36:27 What difference is there to distinguish us that I should save myself and not others, but then again, he argues with himself. He says, since the pain of others does no harm to me, I should not shield myself from it. I do not show myself from it. That's his, his inner, his own mind debated with him. But then he says, well, in that case, why do I guard against my in quotes, future pain, who does no harm to this? My present me. So he says, well, there's, that's showing the role of construction. And when you anticipate pain, you will guard against it. Although you're not feeling it. So his say rejecting that, although you don't feel that the same way as you feel your own pain, but empathically, you can feel the pain of others in fact, but by it has to do with how you interpret your pain and being responsible for that to sink that I will have to bear.
Speaker 1 00:37:22 It is in fact, a false idea for that, which dies is one thing. And what is born is something else. Well, here, he's just strengthening the idea that you are future pain, that you anticipate is, is really just as different from you as somebody else's pain in the present is different from you. He strengthening that argument, but I know one person who tries to use that as an argument that this particular great master didn't didn't accept the reality or didn't was not visited the reality of former and future lives. He tries to pretend because we're continuums, you know, so then the next life will be somebody different. So therefore it's not really us. He tries to make that argument, but wait, but you know, it's not really, I was when we were at 15 and now there's nothing like, there's nothing about us. That's the same, except maybe our, our name and our social security number or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:38:16 Every cell, everything has been replaced many times over, over the years. And there's no, there no one thing in the middle of it all, but just exactly the same, except for our delusion. When we look at a photograph of ourselves at six or something, and if we can excavate in the memory of what felt like to be their whole, they dad, his hand or mommy's hand or whatever, it was pinned on the face. If we get back to it, then it's sort of a click where we take, all right. I was there, you know, if we remember the scene at all, and then we take that, that encourages us in the false view, that has an unchanging thing in there, which there isn't, it's all changing, even, even our experience of being in Nirvana changes. So, okay. So it's for the sufferers themselves. You'll say he says to shield themselves from injuries that come.
Speaker 1 00:39:16 So this is reinforcing. Like I don't have to bother with those people. And then, and then again, he answers his own, his own debater and it says the pain felt in my foot is not my hands. So why in fact, should one protect the other? Why does my hand go to put medicine or anesthetic or whatever it is on my hurt foot or abandons, whatever it is then you shouldn't, you shouldn't do that because it's not, it's not the hands pain. So what is that true? It's inadmissible. You'll say it hap happens simply through the force of ego clinging. So then the, his own mind MITs, there's this interpretive element in our experience. And we are responsible. We create our world all the time and therefore we, we are, we are creating and we're responsible of creating the way we see our environment. And this is very fascinating because in the, the theory and the Buddhist, uh, typology or phenomenology of the five heaps, which is used by Buddhists meditators for thousands of years, the material heap, the sensational heap, which people wrongly translate as feelings, which can be emotions, but it's not emotion.
Speaker 1 00:40:29 It's pure sensation, pleasure, pain, or numbness, the conceptual heap for the activity, hip mental construction heap, and then the consciousness heap, the five where they call the five heaps or the five aggregates. They make it sound like technical. I can aggregate, but it's the literal words, condom, it's a heap. So, so, so those hips are part of you. So for example, the way you're being is not only your eye sense organ, but your whole is I've since field. So that's you. So whatever you see around you is you in this thing. So we are very interwoven with each other because we all see what seemed to we think by language has all the same room, but actually each of us sees it differently. And the way we used the way I see it as part of my being like my body and we carry our visual fields around with us and awaking actually, isn't that interesting?
Speaker 1 00:41:30 I think that's the very interesting, and, and it really, it's a way of being more free also, because then, then you're always, you don't get stuck in just, yeah. It's exactly what I, you know, you don't have to live, you know, one reason why I think people when they die or when they think they're going to die, like some guy climbing a mountain hanging on a cliff or something just thinks they're going to die. Then they say right life flashed before my eyes in a split second, because why they didn't have very many quality moments in their life, they were just living in a field of concepts that they were indoctrinated into and everything they saw and did, oh, that's the person over there. Oh yeah. That's Joe. Oh, that's so-and-so oh, that's a, this is the room. Oh, so they're constantly, they never get out of their own net of concepts.
Speaker 1 00:42:20 And so they don't observe and they don't, they don't have a Mo amazing moment of, okay, I leave. That's why when they get really drunk or stoned or something, people are like, oh, there's some guys standing around, you know, the guide, oh, that's a Daisy. What? I thought it was all universe of, of like whatever, you know, the galaxy, what? That's a Daisy. No, no, it's a galaxy zillion bees in there. So you don't have to go to those links. My point is, it's very amazing. The understanding of the human beings that you encounter in this culture, in which you love to Bhakti. And my, my job here is to help with the wisdom of Bhakti to confirm you even more in doing it. Okay. So , and then there is, and then it's, it's a beautiful thing. It goes on quite a while. And then it gets, and then people say, oh no, but compassion makes us feel such pain. You know, Carl Sagan running around about compassion, fatigue. We all have compassion, fatigue because of media. And we see people starving in Ethiopia or something, and then we all freak out and it's tomorrow. So you kind of recalls the compassion fatigue, but that there's, the compassion is never tired. Real compassion can never be tired. Conceptualized, compassion, sympathy, pity of some hype can make you tired. Yes. But, but real compassion doesn't because real compassion makes you blissful actually, strangely it's very strange, but are trying to get to that.
Speaker 1 00:44:05 But thinking of the suffering of beings, how can you regard as a scrape, the smart of your compassion Donald that says, I remember one time when he said it was an accident, God, personally, the media that's, all him said. He had a look, a thoughtful look on his face and it was easier. I wasn't there. So I just would see his face. And he said, well, when I get overwhelmed by spy of suffering, I remember this is a man who feels responsible for 6 million Tibetans who have been experiencing a Holocaust basically for 70 years now, sort of all new on, on and off a little relief here and there a little bit appalled, but basically ongoing. And now doubling down again at this moment, you know, torture a lot of torture and imprisonment and arbitrary, killing, unbelievable and disruption completely of life. And then the slaughter of all the huge amount of wildlife, as far as the non human beings go in that country and that huge country, biggest all of Western Europe, bigger whole U us west of the Mississippi.
Speaker 1 00:45:08 And so his fear felt a lot of empathy suffering, not to mention all the sea, you know what he did. He was, he was supposed to give a grant to Tibet house a couple of years ago and still he will actually buy some of his book royalties, which, which are in a fund. He did not have them personally, but he directs it. And then we didn't get so upset. Then he did was never announced. But I got a letter from the head of woman of UNICEF informing me thinking. I might like to know that he had given a million dollars to UNICEF to feed the starving children in Yemen or to help feed him. Obviously 1 million is not enough at all I said, but, and he didn't know, and then announced to anybody. And didn't even announce to us who her, we were like the little chicks waiting for a grant.
Speaker 1 00:46:02 He wanted to give us to preserve Tibetan culture. Cause he likes us and we still didn't get it, but we will. We will. And that's amazing, you know, but anyway, what he said was when I'm overwhelmed and I'm getting really bogged down in the huge suffering of so many people, I said, and then when I do it is I just think about more of it. I opened even more and I stopped feeling that it's bogging me down and I'm suffering because of that suffering. And I see their suffering is going on actually. And I don't think about me suffering because they're suffering. And when I do that, I feel so much better.
Speaker 1 00:46:54 I actually then become happy. He said. And why? Because obviously if you become disabled, by being aware of other suffering, you're doing the opposite of being compassionate to them. You are disabling your ability to be of any help to them, even mentally, even to try to visualize them to somehow that there's a way of being free of that suffering. In other words, he would just give up because you feel crushed. So then in no way, it's just becomes your own self suffering that you're stuck in. So compassion by this, this exchange of self and other and of replacing yourself preoccupation. But other Docker patient is the biggest way of relieving yourself, of wallowing in your own misery. And as he said, that's why he says, if you want to be a wise selfish, meaning selfish person using it on your grammatically. I like what you would say it in Tibet.
Speaker 1 00:47:53 If you want to be wisely selfish, let's say be compassionate. Because when you, when you start to really develop real compassion, really being out there with the other suffering, the first being who gets relief, cause you that's the first one you make happy by not attending. I'm not dwelling on your suffering and ignore it and not go well in a way. It's it was a good handle of you appreciating how much work is there as is. And then being with that and then realizing the only way that I can do anything to match the enormity, the agony, the gravity of that is by being energized myself and to do that, I have to find plus somewhere. And then when you get used to it, you can find it in yourself, right? Because that's where there you have it. There's real. Look at us. We're all looking at. How about your happy campers here? Completely happy. Oh, there's tell me your names now. You too. Yeah. Yeah. And what is it? Kathy?
Speaker 3 00:49:14 Jay. Jackie. Jackie.
Speaker 1 00:49:18 Jackie Daphne. Jacqueline. Oh, Jackie. Okay. Got it. Sorry. And you just a new bride, right? New bride or didn't you just get married? Well, two people who just got married or I'm sorry, I'm mixing you up. Which were the two of her getting married. Who just got married or they're not here for married couple over there. Come on now. Don't be so shy. Now. What's your names again? Amy? What was her name? Amy. Davey. The goddess. Huh? Amy. Oh, Amy. Well, Amy. Davey. All right. I bought your name. Peter. Peter. Okay. Amy and Peter. Now everyone here, Amy and Peter are newlyweds, right? Well relatively. Okay. Amy and Peter are newlyweds and newlyweds need everybody else to wish them bliss. All right. And the end. And especially everyone else has to create a mandola around them. And we're going to do that more this afternoon and be in the Mandela and, and congratulate.
Speaker 1 00:50:50 But what does congratulate mean? Grad too late? It means to, to share the grace with someone. Okay. So and Animoto is the opposite of jealousy or envy. And envy is the enemy of art. It's another cliche. It twist us. It's a Dick. It's addictive though. And we automatically begrudge each other's happiness. You know, we automatically have a kind of thought, what about me? I didn't get married. I where's my girlfriend. Where's my wife. I didn't match so long. It's boring. Right? So there are bliss for, oh, well, yes, but well what about us? Oh, why aren't I being celebrated? There's a little reaction like that. Everybody has, if you will tend to give to your mind and where congratulating, it means, the opposite of that. You say, may your blessed be my place. And it's really great. And that basically you don't want to, you don't want to congratulate a bank robber for robbing a bank or something.
Speaker 1 00:52:08 So sometimes we do it. We have movies about robberies and things and the heroes, Robert, and there's a bad karma. Then you get karma, you get the karma of the robbery. If you congratulate in your mind, you know, you, you animal than somebody who does something bad, but some people who do something good love each other, you want to congratulate. So Amy and Peter, I just keep thinking about Amy and Peter. That's going to be, so their practice we're going to do. We're all going to think of them in the center of a Mandela. Like one of those tantric Buddhas and Buddha says male and female Buddhists. And the bliss between them is going to ripple out and it's going to heal all divorces. And it's going to heal all ex enmities and it's going to heal all that ongoing marriages. And they're all going to feel renewed all over the planet.
Speaker 1 00:53:04 And maybe we don't need a lot of breeding, but we, we want a lot of bliss. Okay. So we're just, it's just it's righty now. Okay. Peter and Amy. So it's just, don't be, you have to be proud of that. Don't be shy and embarrassed. Okay. You're their icons of mutually self and other equal love. Okay. Except never quite equal because the male has to listen to the female if you want to have a happy marriage. Okay. So, okay. I'm sorry. That was a digression, but I promised them I was going to do something just as in connection with this form, my body devoid of any absolute self. My sense of, I arose shoe trust, strong habituation. Why should not the thought of I through habit, not relate to another. All right. In other words, the human greatness of the human is that we can identify with another being like husband identifies with the wife, wife, identifies with the husband.
Speaker 1 00:54:25 Then when they really identify the doors of mutual identification become wide open. And often somebody else arrived who identifies with them. It can happen. And then that first, that person is a stranger, but then they, all, three of them are identifying with each other. And then that goes on longer than the honeymoon. And, uh, you know, there's such a thing as mother's gold. That's when I work for other sake, there'll be no sense of boasting self-congratulation. It is just as when I feed myself, I don't expect to be rewarded. So I don't praise myself for feeding myself unless I cooked it at the same time. And it was really delicious. Then I do congratulate myself for making it really great. Therefore, just as I defend myself from even slight disparagement, likewise, for other beings, I shall know, grow used to have a mind protective and compassionate.
Speaker 1 00:55:26 And I've owned like people gossiping and saying bad things about other people. Just like, I don't like it when they say bad things about me, right? This is why the Lord of a low-key Avalokiteshvara, that's a, that's the Buddhist Jesus. Okay. The Buddhist Messiah, the Buddhist Krishna is Avalokiteshvara and Israel. That means the God that's, you know, cause you have , it can be a name of any God, but especially Shivah. And I've a locator though. It's a special herd because it means who looks down, but it has a special kind of looking down who looks down worrying caringly. So it's a special, it's a definition of a loving God of a God that looks down at the beings. Caringly, of course he didn't create them in that case because it's not a monotheistic, I'm there part of the idea, but it's the idea of a completely celestial BA who totally loves other beings.
Speaker 1 00:56:25 And that's Avalokiteshvara who they, who, who the Buddhist believe reincarnates in infinite forms. As many as there are suffering beings. So I will look at it as far as the concept, rather, but without omnipotence, but it's a concept of emanation, what they call mana of infinidum emanation of, of, uh, of the ambivalence of love. You could really say rather than controlling, um, deference, but let's say evidence of love, which doesn't belong to anybody love is where people don't even belong to themselves anymore. And they all want to belong to the beloved. You know? And then at that vast level where the beloveds are submitted, that they belong to everybody in them because of our attachment. So he says, so, so he says out of great compassion, blessed his name, that those caught in the midst of multitudes might be released and freed from every fear.
Speaker 1 00:57:20 So I've a locator. Ishvara the name of that means the caring to carry Lee worrying, looking after you, God is fella is a kind of resonance officer concept of Maha. He's the great God. There was so much greater than you, rather as the one who's worrying about you. You know? So it's the essence of like the love increase to loving Shivah or the loving Ooma, the loving Shakti, you know, like that, that those caught in the midst of multitudes. Oh no, I don't want to talk to 12. Damn so. Well he says all the jar. I'm going to skip to the really the main team, all the joy in the world. I'm sorry. All the joy, the world contains has come through wishing happiness for others. All the misery, the world contains has come through wanting pleasure for oneself. Is there a need for LinkedIn explanation?
Speaker 1 00:58:13 Childish beings look out only for themselves. Buddha's labor for the good of others. See the difference that divides them. If I do not interchange my happiness for others, pain, enlightenment will never be attained. And even in some Sarah joy will fly from me. Leaving future lives, outside the reckoning, nevermind about future lives. Even this life's needs are not fulfilled. The servants do not do their work and masters do not pay the wages earned casting far away, abundant joys that may be gained in this, our future lives because of bringing harm to other beings. I ignorantly bring myself in tolerable pain, all the harm with which this world is rife. All fear and suffering that there is clinging to their eye. The ego has caused it. What am I to do with this great demon? If this ego is not relinquished, holy sorrow, likewise cannot be avoided if they do not keep away from tire people, can't escape from being burned to free myself from harm, therefore, and others from their suffering.
Speaker 1 00:59:29 Let me give myself to others, loving them as I now love myself. So, and then, then the actual practice, as well as this take others higher, low, lower, higher, and equal as yourself, identify yourself as other then without another thought, immerse yourself in envy, pride and rivalry competitiveness. That's they never explained that wrong. It's alarmist when they teach this, but that is the practice. In other words, you know, when people meet each other, they're not as blunt about it. Like dogs are sniffy, you know, but they kind of, they kind of measure each other, you know, we do. And they immediately categorize how the person, oh, are they in any way lesser than me? Are they in any way better at better off than me in any way? Or are they sort of neck and neck with me? You know, we kind of measure like that.
Speaker 1 01:00:34 It's not necessarily accurate, but people will have that kind of reaction. And so the practice of this equalizing self and other and exchanging being preoccupied with them, then yourself and cultivating empathy is that you become mindful about where your own mind is working. So you meet someone and you made it really honestly, with your share with yourself, people share with yourself how you feel about them. Are they above me in any way below me in any way or just they're getting there. And then whatever it is, if you think someone's lesser than you in any way, then you realize they have a gut reaction to you of NB. One way they look up to you. But another day they have, they have an envious feeling because they are looking, they're having the opposite of whatever you have. And then if you feel they're better than you in some way, like super something, then acknowledge a little Lindsey.
Speaker 1 01:01:42 You have little grogginess about their sense of superior. You realize they're being condescending about you. And if they're sort of equal to you realize that you have a natural rivalry, there's a little competitiveness there. So this is just human honesty to self honesty, you know, integrity. And then you imagine looking at yourself through their eyes. And then if there, if there's some way you say dare less in any way, then look at, see how you look to someone who's envious of you. If you're competitive, see how you look to someone who's your rival. And if they, if they're it's there, somehow you're envious of them. See how they look at you, condescendingly and how you look. And at first this will paralyze your interactions with people, of course. And so you do it meditatively and people, you know, you know, and then, and then being honest, you know, like, well, I do feel superior to my door, man, whatever it may be, you know?
Speaker 1 01:02:42 Or like what age to start, you're going to start with remote relation to acquaintances, you know? And then you might get into it with siblings and all kinds of things. And then, so then you get used to right away walking into a bigger picture in a room of like how it's different people looking at you. It's no longer paralyzed after a while. It becomes like a reflex where you kind of, you're sort of equalize the perspectives in a room. Like you try to take all the perspectives in as much as possible. It's not possible, of course it right. But then this is the practice. And by doing that, you automatically, and men in particular, I think it's harder for them. And I say, women more naturally do this. And so for example, if men practice this practice, I think they'll begin to see how things look to their female friends who immediately do take other's perspectives almost in a, in a situation, in a room.
Speaker 1 01:03:36 And they're much more thoughtful and other cultures help men do that. I'll never forget. Uh, I went out to dinner once after giving a lecture in Tokyo to a very invited by a very famous Japanese, uh, Buddha logical scholar. And how'd you meet Nakamura. And he took us out for dinner, me and my interpreter, and about five other people. So maybe four other people and themselves. So that's eight people and it was pretty crowded, very good Japanese restaurant wonderful meal. But we approached the table that it deserved for us. It was, and people were filtering through coming between different tables. There wasn't that, you know, Japanese are, everything's a little tight and what, but when he got first to the table himself to the side of the table. And then he kind of made her like a delicate gesture like this, but everybody else stopped in their tracks just as they were observing him.
Speaker 1 01:04:31 You know, because of course people are wondering where they're going to sit. Right. And he just, and I felt that I was close to him because he was on the, I was the main guest. So he was sort of ushering me, but I was a little bit behind, but I could feel him go into a three-dimensional holographic vision, like the way they make those beautiful gardens in Japan. They have some Bush at this height and a three of bending over at that height and flowers. They're really good at that. It goes into complete three dimensional, tailor this, and then, and then he specifically and carefully sat everybody in some. And what he felt was the best place for them to be given their perspective on whatever the evening was. And because he knew everyone, you know, I didn't know. I knew my interpreter on him, but I didn't know that with people.
Speaker 1 01:05:18 And it was amazing. It took a little time, maybe 20 seconds, maybe 30 seconds. I don't know. It was like, it was timeless though. Cause it was such a lesson it's like, oh yeah. Okay. Everybody sit down. You know how we might do, oh yeah, grab a seat, you know, no way. And they were all like hovering over that table and then, okay. And then I felt wonderful where I see this at me and very interesting people with me, they seem to all be happy and he was a little bit removed. He wasn't all the opposite, but he was like there, I mean, it was, it was really a lesson in refinement of culture and you know, etiquette and, and this kind of awareness of others is actually part of culture. Right. And it's really, and that's it's and it's born of meditation and born of kind of refinement comes like that.
Speaker 1 01:06:11 Right. And then it's also makes life enjoyable. Doesn't it right away. That's less, you'll eventually be Buddha. Then you'll lie. You'll create seats for billion beings on different planets simultaneously sit in lotuses feeling great. Okay. Although then than those who are expecting to stay in heaven forever will be ejected to go find beings who are suffering rather than the gods, you know? Oh, I didn't finish not to go well, I'll come back to that. Maybe another time. So I w your first, from your perspective, and from the Cook's perspective, it's lunchtime. Okay. Thank you so much. We dedicate the word. May everybody become Manjushri, you know, gentle glory of full wisdom and fully devotion, fully devoted. All right.
Speaker 2 01:07:26 This episode of the Bob Thurman podcast was brought to you in part Tibet, house us Menlo online, and to enjoy the full recording and video retreat of this podcast, please visit menlo.org and their online sections are Bob thurman.com. The online retreat is now available to enjoy from anywhere, anytime via teachable.com. Thanks for tuning in and Tashi.
