Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:14 Welcome to my mom's Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful and some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house is the control center in America, all best wishes. Have a great day. This is episode 250 to a Tibet house. Us men love online conversation. Oh, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 1 00:01:17 <inaudible> professor Thurman.
Speaker 0 00:01:23 What an honor to finally get to speak
Speaker 1 00:01:25 With you. Well, what an honor to speak with you. It's a, my own fault I've been there because of whatever my engineer Justin is somewhere else. And we're finally, I'm used to having him there. So I stole a lot of my podcasts. You know, I haven't like I have Q Chris was one of the most important ones for me. Really. It's so nice to see you, like, come on,
Speaker 0 00:01:50 Understand this year, the longest shortest year in the history of
Speaker 1 00:01:57 That's fine, but believe me, my dear, when you get to be pushing 80 short and short, there's a new definition of shortness on push time to scores like that. So I'm so happy to honor to welcome to the podcast. Hello everyone. Uh, my long sword, uh, conversation partner, Jessica Pimintel wonderful actor who also comes from New York like me, although she w she comes from Brooklyn. I was born in Manhattan, but Brooklyn was my Christmas Eve place because we had an aunt to live down there somewhere that we would always go on Christmas Eve. And, um, we'd always know, and we would walk back from the subway, this and that. So our, I love cooking too. And I'm known as an actress, and she's an actor in that role as Maria Reese on the Netflix original series. How orange is the new black currently filming well now and already filmed the seventh season. And it should go on really because so real. I really think it was awesome. I really love it. And I love your character extremely much. And, um, the only thing is when you were on that one that I saw where you were apologizing for tormenting, the overweight to guard and supposedly, and he was supposedly forgiving you and the, I love the way your character played that, but I never got to hear how you tormented him. That's too bad. I missed that.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 I'm glad you did. It's really ugly. It was very ugly.
Speaker 1 00:03:32 Oh God, I'm sorry. Well, the whole thing and just sense that, you know, when I see a thing like Todd, I feel very annoyed. Like, why are these people in there anyway, they're already nice people. We could do something they'd maybe made a mistake in relationship, but usually to some arbitrary drug law or something. And so why are they there at great expense to the taxpayer instead of being in a nice school and having a nice time and like being in their homes with their relatives and so on.
Speaker 2 00:03:59 Okay. That's exactly what we addressed in that final season, uh, that justice reform, uh, criminal reform, restorative justice, it'd be of much greater use to the whole population than to just keep punishing people. And the majority of things that people, reasons that people were in there were the dumbest, absolute, most banal things, tiny, minor fractions that just kept multiplying and multiplying because they were in that situation and trying to survive.
Speaker 1 00:04:31 Of course, it's a, it's a racist, um, attempt to reconstruct slavery, obviously. So there's no doubt about it and it should be fixed completely, you know? Absolutely. As soon as possible, if only we wouldn't do that, but we will, we will, of course, it's just time. Whatever is the time. Now, the time is accelerating. I think, going to rise like a Phoenix out of this disaster. I'm sure the first thing to do at the new year's time is to chat with Jessica. It's so great. But you had that you were in the high school of performing arts where they made fame or which fame was based on, right? You weren't in vain, you were too young or something, or you didn't get it.
Speaker 2 00:05:12 It was right between, uh, when, when it was two separate schools, then they merged into one, it was music and art and performing arts. Then they merged that's when I was there. <inaudible> LaGuardia when it became LaGuardia high school.
Speaker 1 00:05:25 I see. I see. So you're saying that you're a great singer and you must be
Speaker 2 00:05:29 Terrible singer. I scream screaming, hair, heavy metal.
Speaker 1 00:05:35 I bet you're a great singer. I just played the violin violin. I was riding until 12, but I was stupid when I was 12. I wanted to play baseball and I didn't want to practice. So I, I, I managed to get out of it really because I played, I was playing park. I was taught, my mother was a fanatic and I started around or seven playing. And, uh, and then I, I bagged it, which was really dumb. But you still, I hope you're still,
Speaker 2 00:06:04 Yes. I still play many instruments. Yeah. I play bass and guitar violin.
Speaker 1 00:06:10 I like to see you doing a, doing a female in Sherlock Holmes, hanging around playing violin and catching criminals. Anyway, it's so great to chat with you and like, how are you feeling at the end of the year? Are you, are you abroad or are you in the States or
Speaker 2 00:06:28 I've been in Stockholm since March 17th. I was counted as the 17th because that's when the journey began from coffee hopping in a cab, literally 30 minutes before, you know, to get to the airport, knowing that the European borders were about to close with my partners, Swedish and not an American citizen. And the American borders had just closed and we had plans already to meet, but those plans had to change. And then I got a phone call. The borders are closing Wednesday. You got to get on a plane.
Speaker 1 00:06:58 Oh, well, that's great. You were there in Sweden. My partner is also from Sweden and, uh, uh, they grabbed God and I visited her mother with her before she passed long, long ago. And she lived in grave Gatton, which is off that big, uh, seaside, uh, street. I forgot what that's called a big one, you know? And Greg Gracen goes down the Hill to that one, you know, I've got time know, but I never learned Swedish. How was your Swedish? Did you learn
Speaker 2 00:07:27 It's enough? It's enough to get around. If I get lost, it's enough to feel a part of the conversation, but Swedes love to speak English here. So it's almost impossible.
Speaker 1 00:07:37 I'm sure. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:07:39 And then you go turn on the TV to watch maybe some Swedish TV it's there. It's all American shows or BBC.
Speaker 1 00:07:46 No, yeah. That's right. Well, yeah, I couldn't learn myself because it's Swedish would give me a, you know, um, one that said alcohol, you know, when they would say to dinner and then I would be trying to do Swedish and then I'd become like, again, completely hopeless. I couldn't, I never learned either. It's very difficult, more difficult even than German or French was something so different on grammar. Lot of rules. Yes. Yes, exactly. But that's great. You're, you're a bit enjoying it, by the way. How was the sort of the idea that they were going for herd immunity and then some doubt, and they had less controls and less isolation and sort of,
Speaker 2 00:08:25 I mean, as far as my own, my, as far as my own experience is concerned, my partner and I, we're not trying to take any risks. So I mean, we, we also, weren't living in fear, locked up at home and or anything like that, but, you know, if we went out somewhere, he made sure we were outside outdoors. There was never a crowded place, always washing the hands masks if it was too crowded, washing the groceries when you get home, things like that. But we're not generally out and about all the around people anyway. So life really didn't change that much.
Speaker 1 00:08:59 Yeah. Oh, that's great. Well, you look really great and happy. So I think switching must agree with you. I agree with you. And that's really cool. And then do any of the suites speak Spanish with you? They're able to, and so you didn't have a chance for that?
Speaker 2 00:09:13 Not so, not so much, but every once in a while, you'll find yourself in a group of Spanish speaking people. And sometimes the suite is the only one that doesn't speak Spanish, which is very fun, little twist there sometimes. Right? Because they're so desperate to speak Spanish. We never hear that. So when you finally hear it, you're like, <inaudible>, we get so happy that we just start talking about Spanish. We can't get here
Speaker 1 00:09:44 And that's good. They can take a rest that Swedes and they can relax. And they like the fire in us. I'm sure of the Spanish compared to the sort of more stayed is rhythm of the Swedish.
Speaker 2 00:09:52 It's a good combination. I think we work well together.
Speaker 1 00:09:56 Right? Right. I had some horrible jokes. I used to tease the Swedes with, but I won't get into that. So listen, I wanted to really find out I'm sure. Excited by your amazing background in the Derma. And you knew this is Sarah made cancer and low sun touching can sort of Briceno Santara and you knew him. That's so wonderful. He knew I was gay. She won gala. And I were the ones who brought him to America in the seventies.
Speaker 2 00:10:23 That's why I've been wanting to talk to you so much, so much because you're a part of my history. You know, you're like uncle, uncle, professor, Bob, you know, you part, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be who I am today. You're part of the reason, one of the reasons. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:10:39 That's amazing. I'm so pleased and happy if I had any tiny bit, I would have known him a lot more. I'm sure. Through the, through the time, except cause you weren't, you're moved away. You know? And then he was in, he was in Washington, some distance from freeway day crew. So I never got back down to the, my Dharma Homeland, my own home and was free. But acres, you know, gets you all your place used to be next to the Russian church there on third street. And that's where I found him. And, uh, I couldn't believe it, but I did. I couldn't even walk. I tried to run away. When I first parked in front of someone was driving me and like parked in front of in 1960, 62. I got too scared there. I felt applied and my stomach was turning inside out on my legs. Wouldn't work. So I didn't want to go in. I said, let's come back. Let's go. We'll come tomorrow. You know, I don't feel right. Yes. Right now on the skin, I was really scared because I could feel his energy, the energy
Speaker 2 00:11:35 Place. And how will, you know, if you've ever done a retreat in Howell, it's, there's no sleep happening for you. It's something about that whole area. That's always just has this special buzz it.
Speaker 1 00:11:45 How did you feel that? How, tell me, tell me, how did that seem to you?
Speaker 2 00:11:49 I was lucky enough to, you know, be forced by my teacher to do little rooms there, you know? Yeah. Um, the first one I just told him, I used to go and always visit him on his birthday. Then I'd take that long bus ride, you know, from, from Brooklyn to port authority, then port authority to, to howl and then walk down that shaded little street, not because of trees, but it was shady back then. It's 80 back then. And uh, I would just go to bring him flowers and leave. You know, they wanted to make sure I did it on the day and not just the day that we all got together. And he's just asked me, come here, you know, how are you? You know, no, I'm fine. I'm good. Work is good. I'm thinking, I, you know, I might want to do a retreat soon.
Speaker 2 00:12:36 Then it said that the words that if you ever studied with rim Shay, you know, that he would say, bring me my calendar. That meant it was over for you. If you had any plans, if you had a summer vacation plan, if you had, you know, a trip, if you were due, he said, bringing my calendar, brought him the calendar from the wall, you know? And he said, okay, you're going to do your first lead room. Uh, start this day, finish this day, rest two days, rest two days, come to me when you're finished. And then we're going to do this other teaching the following Sunday.
Speaker 1 00:13:17 Okay. Right. Would you do the Derrick? Did you do it there? They had a place there.
Speaker 2 00:13:21 Let the Annie Gompa like a couple, couple of blocks away. So he arranged it and I said, I don't have a place to do it. I don't have the, my apartment. I've roommates. I can't. He said you will do it at the Antigo and Bubba, my job won't let me take off work. He said, yes, they will just tell them what you're doing. And they will tell. And there was no arguing. There was no. So it was full freak out panic mode, you know, first time when you're 20, you know, 20 years old or something like that doing your first year.
Speaker 1 00:13:51 Yeah. Good for you. That's awesome. That's when I got started exactly. At 20 years old,
Speaker 2 00:13:57 I met him, uh, on my 18th or yeah, 1820. Yeah. So 20 is when I took my phone.
Speaker 1 00:14:05 We had a, you must have had some memory. Do you remember any previous lives of your own?
Speaker 2 00:14:10 That's a great question. I think I have,
Speaker 1 00:14:14 Of course you again,
Speaker 2 00:14:17 A few, a few. They weren't all good though. Some of them,
Speaker 1 00:14:20 It's a little scary. You have the cheekbones, you know, you could be Mongolia or Tibet and you should definitely,
Speaker 2 00:14:27 A lot of times when I see his holiness, people ask me if I'm from Armando,
Speaker 1 00:14:31 <inaudible>, you know, they came to daycare, you know, Chinese came in boats, Los Angeles and Peru, and the Japanese also, they came in 2000, 3000 years ago. You know, the course
Speaker 2 00:14:48 Being also part native American have all so many similar things. The jewelry is the same. So one thing we all know this, why do we even keep trying
Speaker 1 00:15:04 Different faces with different colors? You know, that's why I like Kala chakra. I especially like kind of chakra, you know, it has, as it has a black face as a red face, a white face and the left or the golden face in the backend of the yellow face in the back. I like that. Also. I miss a green one and a blue hun, but miss has kind of tracker has a green one. Luxilight
Speaker 2 00:15:27 He has the green one. Right? This is college. Can you still hear me? Hold on one second. Okay. Hold on one second. I did something by accident. Aha. Here we go. Now, can you speak here? All right. There you are trying to get things a little bit louder in my, in my head. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:15:48 Oh, sorry. Sorry. Oh, you know what? Cause I wasn't, I, I forgot. I held a microphone. Microphone was over there
Speaker 2 00:15:59 This entire time.
Speaker 1 00:16:00 I see it. But, uh, Justin didn't correct it. So I guess you were picking up the sound. I hope so, but anyway, you're the important one. So that's amazing 18. I can't. And how did that
Speaker 2 00:16:11 First met Dharma? I would say, uh, Oh, I'm not going to say first met Dharma. I first found what I thought was Dharma through the Dow. They Ching, when I was about sophomore, junior in high school and it really, really clicked with me and I had several copies of it. I would carry it in my, in my book bag with ending glaze. I'm from Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 00:16:33 Well, now I'm just wondering if there is a translation of the desert or coming, you know, there hasn't been enough, you know, in Spanish, you know, that's, I'm, we're, I'm working on that in the next, uh, in my, if I get another decade or two from 80, I'm going to go back to our <inaudible>. No, I, I, I have a, I have a thing. I lived in Mexico when I was 18 for about a year and a, and I really have a thing about, and then I got blocked for decades and decades being over busy. I'm getting back there. There's no professor of Buddhist studies anywhere in any Latin country, not one single one and not one single school. Crazy. Well, it's not crazy. It's the church, this space here.
Speaker 2 00:17:20 I, I do feel that it is rising in popularity in, uh, in central and South America. For sure there, I mean like, uh, MSTP has Mahayana Sutra, tantra press has several books available in Spanish at this point. And they are picking up, you know, in certain sections.
Speaker 1 00:17:36 Yes, for sure. It's great. Yeah. Some of my books have been translated into Spanish, but not enough. I'm trying to work on bringing out a couple of books next year in Spanish, and I'm going to do tours with them and I'd love you to come along and you ever want to go Dharma, maybe you don't want to associate too much too heavily with Dharma in general. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:17:57 I do. That's. I mean, that's a, that's a great, you know, the current tight rope that you walk because people have so many perceived notions of what Buddhism is and what, who is SAR and you don't believe in God.
Speaker 1 00:18:10 I know, no we do. We do. We do. We just don't think there's one that you can blame for everything
Speaker 2 00:18:16 Or one that's punishing you or one you can call to punish someone else. That's not why we pray so to speak.
Speaker 1 00:18:25 I know my wife is more intelligent than me naturally. Um, one time we were, we were going somewhere at some big event and we were with some people who were serious monitors and they were like, we were cruising looking for a parking place who crowded crowding. So everyone said, Oh, you know, Oh, I have good parking. Oh yes. They were praying to Jesus to help them. So then my wife system, you won't choose this to be your parking attendance.
Speaker 2 00:18:51 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:18:53 She said, I love Jesus. You know, you know, the way I understand it, I'm with the dilemma. And that is that, uh, you know, I learned to really appreciate Christianity more by, uh, by learning something about Buddha Dharma, you know, I was rebelling otherwise against, and I didn't agree with some matters. I always loved baby Jesus. Everybody does. But I didn't like that. I thought dad, dad was not nice to her kid, you know, like to his kid, you know, like putting him up on that and putting it to his whole thing for that.
Speaker 2 00:19:25 Yeah. When I was a little girl, Jesus was my best friend. I lived in a very, very Christian home and we went to Bible study school and I would, you know, Jesus was always with me, always my best friend. And is,
Speaker 1 00:19:38 I agree for who he likes people who like what he likes.
Speaker 2 00:19:42 I agree. And also, you know, look like living Buddha, living Christ was a huge impact that helped me convince my mom that I was doing. Okay. You know, I gave that book to her as a gift and she's like, Oh, but it's the same thing, Jesse.
Speaker 1 00:19:56 Yeah, that's true. But you know, some of the more rigid ones hate that when you say it's the same thing, the thing is so open ones. Do I have some funny stories on that day? I'll tell you another time. So I don't want to take time. One lady when grandmother died in Costa Rica, when I once went there really funny, but I'll tell later. So, so that's great. So you would, you don't actually exactly. Remember any previous one. I also, it's funny. I totally went across a hurdle and was sure about former and future life, which I think is a really important thing. And you know, Christianity has a future one, then they think they don't have a past one. They think it just started from scratch, you know, in the back seat of the Chevrolet. But actually it started of course long before, because they were used to seeing in deals. If they, according to their theory, they couldn't have not pre-existed in God. Of course, God has never been he's beginning less like more so I, you know, I, and it's just are stories like that.
Speaker 2 00:20:57 Then we also have to remember that it's, it's not just religious, it's cultural, so it's not even something that you question anymore. But as far as the previous life thing, I definitely remember being ordained many times. Then I had one, one life that was kind of scary, scary to me that it was a kind of a dark arts life that really kind of freaked me out. Yeah. But I mean, I'm sure we've all done good. Bad. Of course
Speaker 1 00:21:26 We've all been everything. Every female has been male. Every male has been female. We've all been by and whatever sense of the word, one ones or whatever.
Speaker 2 00:21:36 Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:21:39 Exactly. That's so cool. I love that. That was really great. So then now, you know, the other thing is I wanted to always ask you about is that, you know, you're an actor and, uh, and uh, like my daughter too, you know, I think actors automatically understand the Dharma well, because when you get into a role, you have to shift identities and you learn to be resilient in your identities, not as a destructive or annoying thing, unless you have the wrong kind of shrink who tells you, you should regionally be, this is the right kind of shrink. They realize that resilience of identity being able to construct this or that way and flexible is strength. You know, that's, that's ego strength. That's, that's, what's good. That's selfless ego, if you will, something like that. So how do you fit those things together? You know, your acting skill and ability, ability to empathize with different pings of different types and your, your study of the central teachings in the Dharma.
Speaker 2 00:22:43 Uh, they fit very perfectly well, very nicely. I mean, first, if you want to just talk about the simple act of what it takes to create a role, you need to do the concentration, you need to do the study, you need to do the analysis of the role, but that's, that's three very basic things that we've required in meditation and in understanding in acquiring knowledge. So that's the first step you're acquiring the knowledge of the character. Who are they? Where are they from? What do they want? What do they do to get what they want? So that, that first part, and then the second part is, you know, like the, you know, from the generation stage to the creation stage kind of phase. So then you have to become that person in one form or another, you can't, you can't judge them for their actions.
Speaker 2 00:23:28 You have to understand them. Why, what do they want? What does every human being want to be happy? Just from one moment to the next? So that's what they want. But given their causes and conditions, their circumstances, they may do it a little differently than, than you would. And, and that's, but those are the tools that they have. So you learn to understand those tools, learn to know why they use them and how they, how they would use them. Even if it's something that it's completely mind boggling to you. Yes, it helps you better develop an understanding of the human condition in general. And once you start walking in that other person's shoes, you can see where their darkness or light is coming from. You can completely understand. So it makes it very hard to be angry at people, makes it very hard to hate people, become a softer being. You become a kinder being because now you've walked in shoes that are not currently are on. I've never been a mother. I played of mother many times, of course, pretending to be a mother is not exactly the same as being one. But it just, the simple act of trying is going to give me an understanding that is deeper than if I never would have tried.
Speaker 1 00:24:40 Oh, sure, sure. Absolutely. That's so well said, so genius. So you said concentration, you said analysis and then the third thing, concentration and study and study.
Speaker 2 00:24:56 Well, you got to study a lot to be Buddhist, so much homework. Really. You think you just go to the beach and do yoga at sunset and you're going to get it. You have to read books, you don't have homework. I have homework from you sitting, waiting.
Speaker 1 00:25:10 So great. I'm so happy. It makes me that's music to my ears, you know, because as you know, a lot of Buddhist Jew insists that they don't know. I don't want to study anything from my heart. It is going to get you so far. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 00:25:26 The ingredients to the recipe.
Speaker 1 00:25:28 Yes, yes, yes. Concentration study and analysis that is so full. Do you, do, did you go to acting studio sort of thing or do you
Speaker 2 00:25:37 Yes. Uh, besides performing arts, uh, besides performing arts, I then went to the American Academy of dramatic arts, which is an acting conservatory the first in the United States and got a degree in theater arts.
Speaker 1 00:25:50 Oh, you're going to do you teach, do you teach now?
Speaker 2 00:25:53 I taught for the first time, this year because of the pandemic allowed me the opportunity to, to teach some kids some Shakespeare this year, very unexpected turn of events, but it's one of my plays. They were doing different plays for their college entrance exams. So they were doing different monologues. So we were digging into what is the meaning, digging out, you know, what is behind the words? It was really wonderful, especially with, with young young kids.
Speaker 1 00:26:21 That's amazing. That's and I would love to take your class. My goodness. It was really good. I know some politicians I'd like to have them take your class because they get stuck sometimes, you know, and they get very, especially my favorite is of course I'll go. Or I loved that. I always loved Al Gore, but he would cruise freeze in front of a camera and then people would think he was terribly. Whereas actually he's very sweet and really nice person. He really is. He was president president in exile for eight years.
Speaker 2 00:26:52 I know. Unfortunately people are too aware of charisma fooled by charisma.
Speaker 1 00:26:58 Uh, yeah, of course it can be, but you know, we want someone decent who has it and that we'll we'll we'll get them. AOC has, for example, she has. Yeah, but they don't, you know,
Speaker 2 00:27:11 But then again, it depends on who you ask. Let's not even go there.
Speaker 1 00:27:15 Well, I know I do love her though. You know, I met her, she, you know, her, her region and Queens is where the Tibet ghetto is, you know, the Jamaican community, it's big 15,000 person Tibetan community there. And so they're her constituents and she comes to their new year of state where I met her. I think she's quite marvelous. X-Factor very intelligent, informed, really, really smart. So anyway, so that's, so that is such a treasured thing. What you say study. And now, you know, I remember Peter Sellers, the great comedian, you know, and he was lamenting in some interview, I read about how he had multiple personality and he couldn't remember who he was. Sometimes he thought he was one of his roles, you know, he would go so deeply into it. And then I realized he probably had a shrink who told him that, well, you have to always be so insightful, you know? And that, that, that ability to be like chameleon, like, and to be resilient, as long as you can responsibly come back to, to a thing where sort of, yeah. Sort of interactively responsible days is actually a it's deep knowledge rather than a disease. You know what I mean? Where you have to keep freaking out about it. It was sad that he didn't have a more, a more enlightened person teaching him like an actor or like a shrink, like you, he reincarnation better study with you,
Speaker 2 00:28:38 But that, it's also, that's also so helpful in practice when we, uh, do so ego grasping, I am who I think I am, but you have to let all that at the door. And same when we're doing practices, when you're changing your face and changing shapes, you have to be able to let it go. Use your imagination there. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:57 Yes, yes. Fantastic. Really? You just amaze me. So what else, where are you going now? What is your, what are your wishes for 2021, whatever you sort of want to get done and do and whatever what's what's on your heart, how do you see the world? W what do you say?
Speaker 2 00:29:14 This was a big, uh, big cleaning, you know, big purification, right? So many things happening at once. And we were forced to, uh, really contemplate and figure out what is truly important when a lot of things were taken away from us. Um, it, it really brought to light problems that were already existing. Uh, just put it right in your face, because you, you weren't going to any parties, you aren't going to work. You want to go into the movies. You were just here with yourself and here with your situations and here with the world around you, that you never really looked at before. Um, so, and it was very, you know, it's very tragic to see that maybe being out of work for a month or two can make someone homeless. Not everyone thinks that way. You know, that, that someone that is healthy can just fall ill very quickly and not have the money to take care of themselves or get decent health, healthcare care. So many people think so, uh, oppositely, but want exactly the same thing. That's almost mind boggling at times, because you're both saying the same thing, but you're going completely opposite directions for the same result is almost, uh, it's mind boggling is the only word I can think of
Speaker 1 00:30:34 It is it is, well, we need to take the money out of the prison system, put it in education systems and the whole system.
Speaker 2 00:30:43 It's a huge, huge factor in how people think live survive is how they're raised and what options they feel they have when they are young, when they are very, very small. If you feel that one day, you can grow up to be president, you might try. But if you feel like your whole life, you're just avoiding jail, that's probably where you'll end up. It's those micro karma, micro karmic seeds that go off constantly that, you know, the meet the killer halfway kind of thing. It's not that you were destined for that as you keep making these choices, even if consciously, you don't think you are subconsciously, those little seeds are popping off continuously and it will get you there, right?
Speaker 1 00:31:24 Yes, yes, yes. It says it's terrible. You know, the, the whole thing about, you know, what is it called, you know, uh, being in terror, logistical driving, because you're going to be pulled over for a light to, you know, like a red light or something, and the Hill going to be in jail forever, you know, because, you know, uh, stop, what is it? Is this patient something while driving terrorized black while driving that's right. Yeah. Crime of being black, like driving, it's just terrible. And you still see it in New York, go through it. You will see black family pulled over a bunch of cars there it's yearly, and you can't do anything about it. You stopped practicing
Speaker 2 00:32:03 A lot of my black and Brown moms have to give their sons and daughters, but mostly their sons, the talk, you know, which it's, you know, don't wear this, don't wear your hoodie up. Be respectful. If you see an officer, uh, don't wear cabs, don't walk down the street at night and that's terrible that you have to constantly, you know, and, and that, that's also another thing that keeps your keep planting those seeds and they keep growing. It's just never-ending cycle. So it's a shame
Speaker 1 00:32:33 It's and we have to fix it really fast. And it's so ironic. We have the guy who would listen to Anita Hill, who made the crime bill who did this and that. And he's the one who's now supposedly going to help us clean it up. But you know, it wasn't my tech naturally, but in a way shit's Cliburn said, that's the one we'd think can get us free of the worst thing. Then we'll go with it and we'll try to do it. And maybe, you know, maybe he'll realize how wrong he has been seems to choice of Kamala. Kurt encouraged me a lot. Yes, it really did. Let's go. Let's hope so. Well, I'm going to help. I'm going to try to help them, but I'm also pushing the squad. As hard as that.
Speaker 2 00:33:15 I know you are, you're a fan of the squad.
Speaker 1 00:33:18 Yeah. So I totally, um, you know, and, uh, there's this one place where, you know, like Nancy was like, her husband is a banker and whatever, you know, but her whole thing came with her relationship with his holiness. I don't know if you know that we pay, we had a big conference Tibet house in San Francisco in 97. And we made her the speaker for the Willie Brown, you know, he also welcomed, but then we had her be the main political figure in San Francisco. And we ran a foul of wind Weinstein because of that. But she was like, you know, letting China in the door everywhere at that time, you know, and in the nineties. And so we didn't want to have her acting like she was a great protector of Tibet, you know, although she did sometimes has done some decent things, but that's how Nancy got started. You know, then she saw, I tried to get AOC to find the vein of the Tibet and team to be friendly in spite of her being opposed on many, many issues, you know, to sort of go slow and wait your turn. And now it's the COVID has shown that Nancy and anybody, but any really dense person has shown there's no time waste where there is no time anymore to say later we'll get to it. You never know. We never know. We don't have the time. We don't
Speaker 2 00:34:35 Never had the time.
Speaker 1 00:34:36 We never had it. And, you know, uh, you know, they shot Lincoln and then they started their anti reconstruction, you know, their horrible business that they did. And that's all coming apart now. And now we're going to win that war finally for dear old Lincoln, we're going to, we must, you know, with your health, you know, so anyway, so good. So, so do you think it'll work out? What do you, uh, what do you have roots now in Sweden, as well as in U S and New York? What do you think you're going to work in Europe a little bit? Or are you coming back?
Speaker 2 00:35:08 I'm hoping, I'm hoping. So, I mean, the thing is, uh, things started to open up a little bit and then it came back. It keeps going in waves and it feels like the solution is everyone just stop, go inside for a couple of weeks and then come back because these waves just keep, just, just keeps going on and on and on, because we do want to get back to work. We do want to keep making music and going on tour, playing concerts. We do want to keep making movies and doing plays and sitting in a room. We do want to do those things. These zoom things are nice and fun, but it's never the same as, as being in a room together. You know, hopefully we'll, we'll work out soon
Speaker 1 00:35:51 And we'll, it will, well, I look forward to seeing you when you come back and, uh, and, uh, you must come and visit us at Bella. Maybe you could do a little retreat. We don't have somebody. We don't have anybody to look up your calendar. We don't have anything like that. You have to do it. Did your partner ever do a retreat as he did? He knows how to get low or no, he doesn't.
Speaker 2 00:36:13 He's not Buddhist. No, he's never knew counselor. I'm Shea Kretser and pear-shaped past many years after he and I were.
Speaker 1 00:36:19 Right, right. But that's cool. You know, you know, this whole is into this thing that everybody should keep their religion of their equity. Yeah. He wants everybody to stay with that and then learn from, say, put a zone or Islam or Sufism or whatever it is. Actually, my latest thing that I'm really excited about is Sikhism that guru Nanak guy was somebody.
Speaker 2 00:36:40 I don't know if you've ever looked into him. He's
Speaker 1 00:36:42 Amazing. He's exact contemporary, about 150 miles apart. I'll just second Dalai Lama really there. And their birth and death dates are very close, very similar. And he's in the middle of the Hindu Muslim thing and that the 15th century, 16th century and 15 16th century and his karma is everywhere. And, uh, as the Hindu gods, aren't fine. Jewel. Everybody's happy, you know, and he's in the middle of that sing songs. Unbelievable. I really liked the exome car. <inaudible> I really, I was, I didn't really get what they were, where they were at the six, because right later they got persecuted 10 generations down and then they got sort of fears, but he was wide open, you know, but nobody mess with him because it was so much happiness radiating out. He was like immune, you know, to the prejudices in his own time, more or less, you know, like they have a story. They tell where he would, he went on the Hudge at one point in shell. And then they'd say that every time he lay in whatever direction, the hut, the Cabo kept moving. So it was in front of his feet were headed toward the Kaaba. And Linda Orthodox were really mad with him. And so he would switch and then the Cabo would move and then he would try to tell them it's everywhere. The Holy one is everywhere. Don't, don't be idolatrous about building, you know, but that's pretty, pretty gutsy to do it in 15, whatever.
Speaker 2 00:38:15 I would say it's pretty gutsy to do now that it gets you to do now.
Speaker 1 00:38:21 Wait, what, I'm just, what I meant to say was that I, after being a, what you might think of as a convert from Protestantism, you know, but, but I was never really, you know, died in the bullet about that. So it wasn't converted out of, I was really secular, you could say. And, uh, but then it made me really appreciate the good side of Christianity later, later with Dharma. Did you know? So that's the thing, you know? Yeah. And he used to tell me stuff like, well, you don't want to be critical of people just cause they're not exactly doing what you do. Exactly. What is this? You know? And, uh, and finally, you know, they kind of chakra all the different religions come out of his different faces and in the visual acuity <inaudible> did you read my Vimalakirti translation?
Speaker 2 00:39:09 I listened to your whole, uh, your, your teaching on it.
Speaker 1 00:39:12 Oh, you did. Did you, did you look at the original? I mean, whatever, you can get to English. It's amazing that guy he's amazing. But he said one time Manchester, he says to him in there, don't sit back and forth. And if they do, he says, where's the alignment of the board to be found. And he says, Oh, in the 62 now Buddhist teachings, you can find it. There it is. So I just say, I'm just saying, it's, it's fun. You know, it's nice to have, you know, family community, but it also, it's nice that everyone is finding it everywhere. It's a key thing. It's what I'm saying. The key thing, key happiness,
Speaker 2 00:39:51 All depends on the way the heart approaches it. You know, I have, uh, an aunt, my, my loving aunt, uh, her dad who is a very devout Christian woman. But when she prays, you know, the walls shake because it's so full of love, all of, uh, warm, if you want to say, Holy spirit, whatever you want to call it, she's got it. And that's what I aspire. You know, I aspire to that. That's what she is. Pure love radiation.
Speaker 1 00:40:21 Yes, yes. We were together on that one. We are a hundred percent together or I try to be, I'm not as good as you. I don't pretend to be. I don't know if you know that, but I make a big fuss out of, because my partner is a Valkyrie understand. So I make, I make a big fuss out of confessional honor. The fact that on the path to enlightenment under whatever tradition, the female of the human species is a head fake. It's affecting their then even in history of Buddhism, the males are always the ones who are just one Bodhidharma, but they all have mothers and grandmothers and female people who are teaching them. But because the patriarch quality of the Asian society is they don't, the women don't get the name. And then if they're not educated to write the books, unfortunately, usually. And so, so, but, and so they have this false idea. They think people think enlightenment is something about, it's like, you know, men are better at math or some bullshit like that, you know? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Whereas the key alignment is compassion and empathy and the ability to identify with others and to realize that you are an oxytocin, not, not a cortisol being. And so the men have to shape up and sit down and listen,
Speaker 2 00:41:39 You know that old saying the, the man is the head, but the woman is the neck.
Speaker 1 00:41:46 I didn't know that
Speaker 2 00:41:47 It's an old Italian expression. The man is the head of the cup of the Casa. And the woman turns, turns the head <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:41:57 Yeah. Okay. I wouldn't have thought, but that's that's the neck is the throat chat, chat, chat. Right. You know, that's his speech, Sandberg, Kaia. That's a speech, that's a speech. And it's also the bliss. It's the bliss chakra and the speech chocolate, the ganglion nerve, et cetera. That day, the head is a little bit fierce, you know, and it's a emanation try Friday. And of course the heart then both meet in the heart. So anyway, that's really interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:42:28 That's an all saying maybe we got in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 00:42:33 Okay. Well, listen, listen, uh, Jessica, we are, we gotta go pretty soon, but you know what? This is only the beginning. I hope I bring it up. I'd like to talk to you again a bit more at length sometime all. That's wonderful. And I'm going to leave you with one clue. Maybe we can talk about that the next time. And that is, did you ever run into the scholarship and the thesis that Shakespeare was actually written by a Jewish Italian woman? Her name was Amelia Persado.
Speaker 2 00:43:06 I got some more homework from you to do. Let's see, I'm writing it down. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:43:13 I think you, because you're a teacher that you might really, I think it would be very interesting for you to, to examine that, that, uh, that there's two books by a guy name of what's his name. I forgot his name. And I'll tell you next time. It's amazing. It really is amazing. It's like this kind of alternative reality stuff, but it's really scholarly analysis of Latin and Greek and Aramaic and the whole thing. And it's like the alternative scholarship about Abe Lincoln. Wow. Did you know that about him?
Speaker 2 00:43:44 No. Did they say that he's parked block or
Speaker 1 00:43:48 Jewish mother was Jewish? There's a cost. The wash completely
Speaker 2 00:43:54 And Columbus. Wasn't Italian. That's the other one? Portuguese Portuguese bastard child. There's a lot of those things, no stories out there.
Speaker 1 00:44:10 Anyway, I liked that. I liked most of that one, but <inaudible> was the one that really all right. I will check it out. Really gets me, you know, uh, you know, Shakespeare shoe was maybe he was a boyfriend sort of thing, but he was an actor. You know, he wasn't really a writer when he died. There were no papers in his house. Everybody knows that, but they think it was some English, noble who did, you know, Earl that sinks or something. And they think they're the regular waspy scholars. But this scholarship is amazing for an actor and a Dharma person and a enlightened person. Like you. I think you'd be really interested. It doesn't diminish Jesus at all, but it shows, it shows how the Romans distorted the thing. It's actually the essence of it, you know, and how she, she re she revived the things subliminally at around the same time as the King James Bible. But you couldn't do it as a woman. And also an immigrant woman. Of course not England from Italy course not. I love it. Anyway. I'm just really excited to finally meet you, Jessica. It's been a long time. If I could, if we had a proper, proper thing, I could transmit this contact to you. You met his holiness a number of times.
Speaker 2 00:45:28 Yes. A number of times, several times over the years, we've been in the room to get you. And I have been in a room together many times over the last 20 something years with Shay and, uh, uh, whole his holiness, his teachings, but we never got to meet
Speaker 1 00:45:45 It. Did not recognize Jessica <inaudible>. I can't believe it. Know. Now I do now. Thank you so much. No, thank you
Speaker 2 00:45:55 For just inviting me to speak. It's an honor to, for, to finally connect with you heart to heart, you know, directly. So thank you for everything. And we'll be talking a lot more. We just scratched the surface. We didn't even talk about the heavy metal Buddhism stuff.
Speaker 1 00:46:16 I know that people in San Francisco and I grew up where they called, uh, the, the, the, you know, the ones in San Francisco who played with the 49ers, you know, heavy metal people. The what's her name? I can't remember that old age. No, but I know those guys did the old Hans or something. The old Danish guy who founded the lineage of those guys. He's a Dharma in England. I don't know if you've ever met them. No, I don't think so. They're really quiet. There was one of the heavy D original, heavy metal types in there were big in San Francisco, San Francisco. They based there and they play, they play on the 49ers stadium all the time. Once a year, they have a big tradition out there. I'll find that San Francisco, you will. You will. I love you. I love you. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Love you very much.
Speaker 2 00:47:06 <inaudible>
Speaker 1 00:47:12 Jessica. Okay. All the best. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Thank you, Justin. Thank you too.
Speaker 2 00:47:18 <inaudible> thank you because it's Metallica.
Speaker 1 00:47:23 Yeah. Okay. Next one. We're going to do, we're going to focus on music and Metallica. Okay. That, did you get to see those videos that, uh, from my band? No, I haven't seen them. I didn't get to now. I'm sorry. That's okay. But the subjects, you know, piled in Lama Pawnee, and the last one was more to discover their <inaudible>. She's my girl. She's my big sister. You know, you know, when you say the girls, girls squad the squad. That's my squad. You know, AMT. No, I don't. I know it's always behind me. It's always with me. <inaudible> so happy to present that to folks. And it's just the first of a series we're going to do with the gray Jessica, Jessica Pimintel. All right. Thank you, Justin. Okay. Bye.
Speaker 0 00:48:59 The Bob Thurman podcast is produced under creative commons. No derivatives share license and is brought to you in part through the generous support of the Tibet house, us Menlo membership, community, and listeners. Like you please feel free to share posts and like on your favorite social media. Thanks for tuning in.
