Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:14 Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful and some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house is the Dalai Lama's cultural center in America, all best wishes. Have a great day.
Speaker 1 00:00:48 This is episode 265, a conversation with Robert Cymbalta.
Speaker 2 00:01:13 Anyway, welcome everyone. Nice to see you all. And I'm delighted to finally have, uh, here to talk to, um, Dr. Robert savada, uh, who is wonderful, um, work on iron Aveda. I have been perusing, but not thoroughly. It's still due to being foolishly busy. Um, but, uh, I already learned a bunch of things that will delight in me. And, um, for years, people have telling me you've got to talk to Roberts about, oh, you do you know, Robert <inaudible>. And I do know a little bit in the sense of I've seen your manifestations, Robert, but I haven't met you. I'm sad to say, and I'm delighted to do so. And, um, so finally we managed to get a podcast going and there we are. So welcome. How are you? Would you, is there anything you'd like to start out with particularly today?
Speaker 3 00:02:08 Um, no, just to say that it's a great pleasure to meet you as well. And I, I of course have, uh, heard quite a bit about you over the years. So I'm glad that our mutual friend, Chandra Eastern has been able to bring us together. I know
Speaker 2 00:02:27 Isn't that she's, she's so wonderful. I love her chanting with the Nina and so on and friendship with, um, with the wonderful reincarnation of MACI lab debt that we have out in Colorado and who was an old friend of mine. And I'm so happy. She was finally recognized us because she deserved it after a lot of struggles and travels and studies and whatever I know, a hundred percent. So, um, you know, uh, uh I'm and I apologize for my hair, although I am cultivating, I have a friend Peter Sellers who was the theater director. Hmm. Yeah. It's not the Peter Sellers who was the wonderful pink Panter is a little different spelling and he's, uh, he lives out on UCLA. He's a professor and he invites me to his class. I said, he has here that says straight out like that high it's amazing. And, um, in a way, when, when I was out of control, I lose my hairbrush. Like it's happened right now. I can't find it. Uh, it gets like that. So maybe I'll leave it. Like,
Speaker 3 00:03:32 I think it looks fine. I took the precaution of wetting mine down and therefore it is much more manageable. It
Speaker 2 00:03:41 Does look, it does look more civilized. I like that. And, uh, you know what, I love it. I didn't know that in Sri Lanka, they had the IRS, they have, I Aveda there, but they have it with a Buddhist flavor. And, um, is that because they, they have a claim, a lineage from Barta or something, or that dog Bata was a Buddhist or something. Is that, is that the claim, or can you tell me about that?
Speaker 3 00:04:07 There are so many claims. Um, and I think probably the, the basis of the basis of ire may be as its name suggests from the Vedas, but very likely the reason why it developed so much in India was because of the emperor, uh Sroka who was converted to Buddhism after conquering the Eastern kingdom of Coalinga and realizing the implications of conquest and war. Right. And he is renowned for having set up, uh, clinics than hospitals and all sorts of, of medical infrastructure on the S in the part of the subcontinent that he was ruling, but he also sent out, uh, missionaries to all parts of the world. And my suspicion is that, um, it was thanks to, uh, Shoko that, um, that, that a good deal of medical knowledge reached, uh, to Sri Lanka.
Speaker 2 00:05:19 Right. I see. Yeah. That's before, by the time, right? Oh, yes.
Speaker 3 00:05:23 Well, before, uh, soca was wide about roughly third century BC and why, but, uh, nobody really exactly knows, but probably more like seventh century CE. So, you know, maybe a thousand years later.
Speaker 2 00:05:39 Yes, yes. Yes. Well, you know, the, the, um, I did study when I was, um, a student, uh, trying to be a monk and determined actually to Chavon with my Mongolian, uh, teacher first teacher telling me, yes, I know you're determined to be a mom and really want to be, I know that, but you're not going to be able to stay amongst. So it's a, it's a disgrace in Tibet to be amongst and then quit. I'd like Thailand. And so don't do it. And I just wouldn't listen now being whatever 20 year old on this end, you know, Steli, it,
Speaker 3 00:06:14 It is surprising. Uh, I, I always remember the words of mark Twain when I was 15. I was amazed at how my father was when I became 21. I was astounded at how much the old man had learned in six years.
Speaker 2 00:06:33 That's really good. I didn't know that one. That's a really good one. Yes, yes. I little bit had that. Not too much when my dad died around that time when I was 21, but before that, we luckily had a good contact. I did realize his mystical tide and, uh, and that really wonderful. How did you, how did you, where did you grow up in the states or, and how did you get involved in all this, you know, to notice in the, in your endorse, your book, you were saying Covey, Milan under, as your, maybe rude kudo was here, root guru, or let it grow in the medical thing or whatever.
Speaker 3 00:07:11 He preferred to think of himself as my mentor. Um, and I met him after I had already been studying in India for a year and a half. Um, I grew up in the Southwest, I w uh, in Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma graduated from high school and college in Oklahoma. And, uh, I was very good at taking examination. So I graduated when I graduated from college with a bachelor's degree, I was still just 18 and I didn't know what to do, being 18. And of course, thinking, I knew all kinds of things, and I arranged to get myself admitted to medical school. And then I thought, I must go somewhere exotic before I go to medical school. So I, I went to Africa and I crossed Africa, Overland, and I got to Kenya, and I found myself invited on an ethnographic expedition. And, um, and it just so happened. They were looking for, they wanted to, uh, document how they, the traditions of this particular tribe, which had been not visited by any outsiders. And until very recently, we wanted to document their, a number of their, uh, uh, rituals, including, uh, the ritual of joining the tribe. And so they invited me to join the tribe for that purpose. So I'm proud to be the first white member of the Polk coat tribe of north Kenya.
Speaker 3 00:08:56 And then I was pretty sure that I wasn't ready to go back to medical school. So I wrote a letter and said, I'm not ready to go back yet. And the Dean sent me a very nice letter saying, we'll save your seat for one year. And I remember the part about, uh, it is important to do this sort of thing before barnacles start to accumulate on the ship of life. And I agree, I believe it is very important before the ship of life is covered with barnacles, which slows it down dramatically. That one should go out and do things. So I flew to England where my sister was conveniently, um, studying. I gave her my Spears to take back to the U S I had a, a special head dress made out of mud and painted. And so on that I had a barber cutoff and I sent that to the U S and then I crossed over land to Nepal.
Speaker 3 00:09:56 Right. Wow. I, I didn't like India. Uh, initially in fact, I got, um, uh, all my, uh, my possessions stolen and be hard right here. So I started to have a bad opinion of Bihar from the beginning. I love Nepal. And, um, I might've stayed on in Nepal for quite a while. We had family, friends working for USA ID there, and I had a friend from college and the peace Corps. That's where I heard about IRA Veta from the peace Corps doctor the first time. Right then I heard that his holiness, the Dalai Lama was going to give a Kala chakra initiation in both the Gaia in January of 1974. Oh yes. Wow. And I had heard of the Dalai Lama, and I had no clue at all about what a college soccer was, but everybody who was anybody in the ex-pat community of Cottman du was headed down.
Speaker 3 00:10:57 And I felt like that was definitely going to be the place to be. So I arrived in both the Gaia with 500,000 of my dearest friends and attended the Kala chakra. And it was, um, I don't know how to, I don't know what adjective to use. Let's just say mind boggling to be part of that entire thing. And of course, to have Darshan of his holiness, though, I must say that the Lama who impressed me the most was, uh, dill, Gokin say re-input Che who, of course he was a very big man. He was very tall, very large, but he just, I didn't even know what an aura was, but I could just see that there was something radiating out of him that was totally different from anything else. And I thought to myself, I don't know what these guys have, but I need to have some of it myself.
Speaker 2 00:11:58 That's great.
Speaker 3 00:12:00 And then I didn't know how I had no clue as to how to do that, but I got on a train. I went to Bombay. I was there for a few days. I happened literally just on the street to meet some people who introduced me to some people who introduced me to some people who introduced me to the most eminent ayervetic doctor in India at that moment. And I said, I'd like to study Iveta instead of modern medicine. And he said, you're in luck because, uh, in just three months, uh, the <inaudible> college and <inaudible> is going to start, um, a, a, a batch of students who will be taught in the English medium. Yes. You'll have to learn Sanskrit within nine months, but you have nine months. So, um, and you can have three months to get your visa, and then you can start and then everything will be great. And so he gave me a letter saying, admit, this student, I went to Poona. I went into the I'm, I'm sure I was the first non-Indian to visit the place I went in there. I showed the letter. They weren't happy about it, but they didn't have any choice because he was, he was the man. You could not say no to in the Ayurvedic world. <inaudible>
Speaker 3 00:13:24 No, his name was pundit. Shiva's shutter, ma shutter, mine. Um, I met Vinwan Nanda after a year and a half because I was, I was, I didn't want to make my parents pay for my education. So I had saved up some money working when I was in the U S but I needed a little more money. So I got a, a youth grant from the us office of ed, uh, uh, education, or was it the national debt, national endowment for the humanities. And they gave me some money to research, just to give sort of an ethnographic report on what was going on with Iveta in Poona at that time. And I was interviewing people. So, um, Vimala Nundah was one of the people I was interviewing. He lived in Bombay, but he had come to Poona because he owned thoroughbred race horses. And so I went to interview him and, um, and he, and I became, uh, uh, we enjoyed one another's company. And then pretty soon I was spending a lot of time in Bombay. And I ended up spending 10 years at the race course. I became his authorized racing agent. So while I was studying Iveta, I was also involved in thoroughbred racing, which is, I loved the horse part of it, that the gambling part of it, I mean, human beings, uh, uh, uh, human beings become criminals very easily.
Speaker 2 00:15:04 That's amazing. So what did we do it, they would <inaudible> raise your horses and then you have to take bets or make bets or what?
Speaker 3 00:15:15 Yes. I mean, uh, it, in, in India, they have, um, they have just like, they have over here, they have, you know, that you put your money into sort of a complicated machine and it comes out, but they also have licensed bookmakers like they do in the UK. And so, um, there were certain ways that you could, um, you could bet money and you could avoid paying the tax on it, on all of the money. You bet. If you had an arrangement with the bookie and the bookies were all trying to figure out how to make the, uh, favorite horses lose so they could pocket the money and everybody was, everybody was trying to manipulate everybody else. It was a really great education in human nature.
Speaker 2 00:16:03 Great. It sounds like at the same time you were studying, I read a definitely
Speaker 3 00:16:12 Like to use Ayurvedic treatments on his horses, also homeopathic also sometimes, you know, naturopathic things. And so that was, uh, I learned a lot from that also, what sort of things are good for horses?
Speaker 2 00:16:26 So he was the horse racing guy, but he also was our go to car. He was a Yogi, right.
Speaker 3 00:16:33 And he had, he had started off life, uh, living in a very rich family, but then he went off and became a SATU for a while. And then he studied, I Arvada studied Joe Tisha, Indian astrology, and, uh, he studied music. He was a brilliant musician and he could cook really well. I mean, he could do, he was a, he was a very, uh, versatile character. Amazing,
Speaker 2 00:16:59 Amazing. <inaudible> he's a he's passed away. I presume he passed
Speaker 3 00:17:03 Away in 1983, so, oh, that's so neat. My teacher passed away 38 years ago.
Speaker 2 00:17:10 My, uh, I guess your one girl, my Calmac teacher, he was called Nick. I met him in New Jersey after going to India for one year on over land, as a fuck here. And, uh, then got interrupted because my father died. And when I came back, I met, they'd get this Mongolian who lived in New Jersey, like wow, half and one and a half hours from New York, you know? Wow. The least likely place to find a groove for a new Yorker. It's
Speaker 3 00:17:40 Laid back then.
Speaker 2 00:17:41 Exactly. Exactly. Well, anyway, how amazing to be in Milan? And I just loved his names. He reminds me of Jimmy, like your T yes. Doing all kinds of regular worldly things and yet maintaining like a life perspective from his basic insight and so on. That's wonderful. And you, so you inherited his, um, he was your while you were a mentor. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:18:06 Yes. He, he, he always said that he preferred not to have disciples himself. So, um, so the person that he had, he had three gurus and I, whom I met one who was the Saidu who lived in Eastern India, Southeast India in near the city of Vishakha Putnam. Oh yes. And, uh, he was, uh, he was a very, he was an extremely interesting character, um, who, who actually, and I saw it many times and I testify. I mean, I suppose it could have been created by somebody, but who would have thought to do that back then he had a certificate that from the archeological survey of India, and it said, this is to certify that John told us that <inaudible> was found. It didn't say in samadhi, but it, the implication was in samadhi during excavation in the curd, the road Teluca of Puri district of Orissa state in the year, 1905. So he had been, apparently it was, they were excavating a temple that had collapsed 200 years earlier. And they found him in samadhi, in the ruins and the certificate didn't say in somebody, but I heard about this from, from the people around him. And, um, back at that time, they had special people in Putti who, you know, most people want to get into samadhi. They had special people to bring you down, out of samadhi. And they brought him down out of samadhi and he lived for another 88 years.
Speaker 2 00:19:57 Okay. Did he say when he went in, does somebody
Speaker 3 00:20:02 Talk about that? But he did. He would occasionally say something like, I remember what happened 400 years ago or something like that. So he was probably, uh, you know, uh, at least a hundred when he went into somebody, he was quite a character. When, as long as I knew him, I mean, he, the, the story was he had been a breath of Tarion earlier in his life. But when I knew him, he would drink this much Cola drink every day and this much milk and his only solid food was tobacco. And I don't mean he chewed it up and spit it out. I mean, he would tear it a couple of big black tobacco leaves, tear them into strips, chew them and swallow them.
Speaker 3 00:20:50 And one day, I mean, I saw him do this many, many times. And one day I was thinking he paid attention to everybody's thoughts, very carefully. I was thinking, how is he doing that? And immediately he said, what is the use of eating? He spoke very archaic Hindi. So, but he was kind enough to speak at simple, quiet, uh, you know, slowly. So I could understand it. He said, what's the use of eating. You wear out your teeth, you wear out your digestive organs. It's much better to find something really poisonous that's easily available. And when you eat it, use internal alchemy to transform it. That's amazing. So I said, yes, Guruji,
Speaker 2 00:21:36 That reminds me, Nagarjuna said, Nagarjuna never ate anything. Aye. Aye. <inaudible>
Speaker 3 00:21:44 You know, Nagarjuna was a great Siddha. So he, he had, he had enough knowledge of, of Russell's idea of alchemy that he would not have needed to. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 2 00:21:54 Well, he took some, he may, he had some kind of a pill right here. I'm retired kind of thing, but he would never eat food once he got going. You know? So I guess that was his secret, which they say, actually they say that lady was, was Blackburn the telomeres lady. She said that, uh, they all agreed. We had a longevity conference with his holiness here in, uh, in Woodstock that men lie. And, um, and, uh, they all agreed all the Western types that caloric restriction is the only longevity thing. That's definitely, you know, there's no question about it. I
Speaker 3 00:22:31 Believe that has been conclusively right.
Speaker 2 00:22:35 Saying that that that's the extreme of caloric restriction. Yes. He was. He could have been thousand years old. That is so neat. I love you. So lucky, extreme, so many of our hats, right? The great DAC, they supposedly are buried in this cave or that cave waiting for my dread, you know? Yes. They're, they're keeping the, they don't need to keep the body. They can go and get another one my day, you know, but they, in various ways, but they, uh, they do Stu that for some reason, they say, no, I think I do actually found one. I'm so thrilled, but it's
Speaker 3 00:23:11 Amazing. And it's thanks to Vimmel Amanda, who, who D who did not use that name when he was alive, he just used his birth name, but he preferred for people not to know exactly what, who he was.
Speaker 2 00:23:24 I see. I see how beautiful <inaudible> <inaudible> and they're still there and you still found them. That's so great. So anyway, did you get, ever get back to Kala chakra? Did you, do, did you do things I will send you are beginning efforts at working on it takes the texts? You know,
Speaker 3 00:23:44 I, aye. Aye. Uh, uh, after college chakra, after, after whatever happened to my cutter most at that time, and I certainly am extremely thankful to, to his holiness and to everybody who, who was involved with that because had I not attended that, I don't know what direction my life would have gone in, but very, possibly not in the direction that it did. So then I got very much more involved and there I was in India. And, um, so I started doing yoga and I started following more of a, um, more, more of the, uh, of the sh I would say, I mean, it's Vimeo on Nanda himself was very eclectic. His, his, his pers, his family were, uh, were members of what's called the push de some pro Daya who are, uh, uh, followers of the, of <inaudible>.
Speaker 2 00:24:51 Oh, her need <inaudible>. Yeah. Sham does was my dear friend. He introduced Milan, Bubba and Milan
Speaker 3 00:25:02 And Milan Baba. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:25:05 Yeah. They're in Mumbai. His he's based in Mumbai. Right? Exactly.
Speaker 3 00:25:09 Yeah. Right. So, uh, uh, that whole, and I was fortunate to meet chummed us as <inaudible> and he was called print them Mayisha because put them up, of course in Sanskrit means first. Right. And Rollabye Giardia, there were seven, seven seats, seven <inaudible> in India, but he was he's the, his, his lineage is the, from the oldest son. And so is the oldest land. I see,
Speaker 2 00:25:39 I see, I didn't know that, or I love those people. They're really great. They say, they think Shanker is too dualistic.
Speaker 3 00:25:46 Oh, I, and I agree entirely also it's and Villa Nanda also said, you know, Sean cut up. He, he, he made it a point to, to wander around India, doing dig Vijaya, you know, debating with everybody. But if you really believe in absolute non-dualism, who are you debating with? What are you debating? That's right. You're not sitting quietly and being non-dualistic.
Speaker 2 00:26:16 No, no, well, you know, the Buddhist version of it, he finally did lose. They lost to somebody. They say they have different versions
Speaker 3 00:26:27 Course. The sh they, they shrunk, they shrunk it. Uh, followers say that, that it was exactly.
Speaker 2 00:26:33 I know. And that's, which is fine, which is good, which is good. I bet I'm very into it nowadays because his, in us has it. My current mentor is all in us who I can't really get him to really be a mentor. That's it? My original goal was like there too. He never would say he was my girl. He said, I'm not your girl. No way. He said it would be because I will, I will scold you and tell you the things you want to hear. And then you'll be mad at me and that'd be a great sin for you. And then I would've caused you a great sin by pretending to be your girl. So I'm just your mid trial, you know, your gateway Shania and your spiritual friend. So he was refused to take that thing. And he's right. I did that. I disobeyed him at different times.
Speaker 2 00:27:19 So I was especially frustrated with him because he wouldn't let me meditate. He absolutely is. And I was when I first encountered the Buddha Dharma with fish through him, which I think was the real thing. He, I just was ready to leave the body at any minute, you know, I would slip and he would show up at four in the morning, like, what are you doing? Like have some yogurt. Why aren't you sleeping? What's a math buddy. And he always blocked me from doing it, which, uh, which I got very frustrated about until like third year later. And I realized he saved me from going into some state that would have become addictive to me and my learning other things, you know? Right. And, uh, and you know what they called, you know, obtaining certain type of cessation at the wrong time. Yeah. You know, Zuora cultivating something more and oh yeah.
Speaker 2 00:28:09 I was telling him the story. He, when he left me in Dharamsala because he got tired, he said of me bugging him to be a monk, left me with his holiness. He said, everybody told us on his, don't make him a month. And then he said, well, you're the Olin is whatever you decide. You know, but I'm just an old my lawyer, but I, but he wants to be amongst. So he'll probably, he might convince you because he really sincerely wants to, but he w future, he won't be able to, um, I live in America. I know, you know, now, and, uh, I know what will happen. And so, as long as was took time, he spent a long time. And then finally he did anyway. Cause I, I was so determined it. And uh, he thought that would keep me together. We were buddies, you know, so that's boils my being his disciple because he, he won't tolerate it sort of girl, dark Sheena, say with me, because we're fellow students in a way, right.
Speaker 2 00:29:04 He's only six years older. And he had me studying with his teachers. And, um, typical thing is one time I was, I was doing a farewell audience having been there for a year in 1980. And there was some small kids, you know, X month with many kids, you still have to say what happened to my mom's and not being able to go this anyway. So I'm trying to show the kids how to be a proper, you know, you have a T and so I'm trying to bow. And as I'm going down for the first bow, just to show off to them, normally when we met, we would work on things. I was doing it, he grabbed my hand and I fell over as if he thought I was supposedly shaking hands, but he mischievously grabbed it. And you knew I was off balance. And I fell over flopped over on the floor, which broke the ice. And the kids were roaring with laughter. And then they all sort of flopping on the floor. It was a very funny moment, but that's typical. It's all in this mischievous kind of side then. And um, and my wife was saying, see, I told you not to bother to be formal. She told me it was all on board with it.
Speaker 2 00:30:16 So anyway, but oh yeah. So, so the geisha arrived with you. She'd done them. I don't know if you've read him.
Speaker 3 00:30:22 I was very fortunate to meet Dr. <inaudible>. Oh my goodness. 30 years ago, maybe. And to have him take my pulse, that was a, quite a wonderful man. What did he knowledgeable? What I mean,
Speaker 2 00:30:36 What a diagnostician,
Speaker 3 00:30:38 A man who was aligned with, um, I like to call it the eye, your video, but it's that, that principle, that, that, that check D that exists in the universe that is, is whose purpose is to help, to create a beings come back into, uh, into, into health, into harmony. And I mean, it was just flowing through him. It was just so obvious. It was sort of fine, man. So
Speaker 2 00:31:06 Amazing. And he really is. I think he's the only to bed, never do receive the pod reward before he died recently.
Speaker 3 00:31:13 Really? The only Tibetan, oh my
Speaker 2 00:31:15 God. No, they never gave it to a dialogue, I guess, for fear of China, the government, uh, himself or to someone like Dingo, Kenzie was one of those really great other people, older people they never did, but tell him how they picked him out. Because I remember before he got it, I was sort of paper. I was in Dharamsala. I saw him. Lastly, that last time I did see him and, and, um, there was a newspaper article, like, oh, the planes are going to Congress all the time, but they're not all going to see the dollar, much, all kinds of people going to see she'd done it. And at that time he was 93, 94. That was the way he passed that 94. And, uh, he just a year after that, and actually I was there when he went to the presidential palace and he wanted me to go with him, but I had a flight.
Speaker 2 00:31:59 I mean, it was stupid and I wish I had gone, but I didn't. But anyway, he was so great. And anyway, the, my teacher said, you have to study the medicine. And I said, what do you mean? I don't want to say the medicine, unlike your identity. I wasn't like on a waiting list for medical school matriculation. And I said, no, I want to study showing you a dad. I won't say a nightmare later this later. Maybe you can learn something about that. But, uh, now if you weren't understanding Tibetans, you have to understand the medicine, if you're on a certain life. And so you have to study Mizzou study with this man, and he brought him over to where we were staying. Hey, okay. I guess luckily I did with him. I was late. He had me reading posters. I memorize the root Tundra and I memorize memorize the pulse Tundra, also the Daddo, but then unfortunately I've forgotten.
Speaker 2 00:32:53 Cause then I didn't practice except for the Euro was there, who would made me do like instructional reading, and then I would say something, then he would criticize it, you know? And it's amazing. Those verses pop into your mind, you know, when you feel a pause, it's an amazing system to train a completely unintuitive person. As I fancied myself, just so you know, left-brain like mathematic mathematically or sort of person, but I did actually get some sort of insights like that, but he was credible. You know, the people I would translate for him when people would come, English-speaking few people in those days and, uh, sixties, this was early sixties and, uh, I would translate for him and he would say, oh yeah, you've been, you've been in a desert place for like two years and no peace Corps people and people like that would comment. He would like recite where they'd been, what they did, what their problem was. And they would just totally freak out. And, uh, he was amazing. And then Reagan the American or Swiss doctor who was at the Western hospital in terms of, I would recommend patients to him, you know, of all times, especially for certain things, you know? Right.
Speaker 2 00:34:03 And, um, but we didn't, I didn't know any way, any Ayurvedic people who were helping the dependent. So in a way it was Tibet and the IRA, ADA, I guess you'd have to call it, but there's no Indian thing. You know, that whole thing, you know, that the bad thing about the Buddha teaching medicine put, uh, emanating all these chapters and things, you know, et cetera, you do know that. I'm sure.
Speaker 3 00:34:25 I, I, I, no, I wouldn't say that I'm well-educated but I certainly have, um, I have some knowledge of that.
Speaker 2 00:34:33 So there's no precursor though. I am always fans fantasize that you talk a young Dan gumbos organization of that in Tibetan was based on <inaudible> and that there would be some connection with the medicine, Buddha from India, but I think you can find it right. I think you'd go, as you say, it goes back to <inaudible> the extra, all your Vedic date.
Speaker 3 00:34:56 Yeah. Yes. And, uh, even, you know, the wog Barta is a compilation of both the Cheka some HiTA and the sushi with this Amita. He imp he digested them, he improved them and he converted it into verse, which is much easier to memorize than prose. Right. And you know, there, I actually, um, uh, a friend of mine who, who was a classmate who just a couple of weeks ago, sadly, uh, uh, uh, passed away his daughter is, was also an, uh, physician. They come from a family of ayervetic physicians. And she, um, was in the process a couple of years ago of learning by heart, the entire Ashtanga, her dam, which is about 9,000 verses. So wow. It's, it's um, the, uh, and that's the way originally that people, that, that's why it took you 12 years to study, because you would memorize all 9,000 verses and whenever somebody came in front of you, you would use, you would take the verse that you had been taught and that would help you remember the commentary that your gudu had provided to you. And then you would be able to, then you'd be able to, to do something useful to whoever it was that was in front of you. Right,
Speaker 2 00:36:31 Right. Yeah. That is wonderful. That way that they have the root texts and so on. So do you yourself practice Irita correctly?
Speaker 3 00:36:38 Uh, I, well, I used to up until a couple of years ago, consult with people. I can't say practice because I have a license to practice in India and, uh, I I'm the first non-Indian to graduate from an college of higher Veta and be licensed to practice. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 00:37:01 And your classmate, by the way, the guy who's now in New Mexico, or was he a classmate of yours?
Speaker 3 00:37:07 He was, uh, he was, uh, one of my teachers was one of the teachers, Dr. Vasant laud. Yes. He's, um, 10 or 11 years older than I am. And, and he had in fact just recently become a teacher there. And he was, he was actually the favorite teacher of all of my classmates, whether they studied in English. Most of them studied in Morati, which is the local language of restaurant Bombay in Poona, but he was always the favorite teacher because he spent, he was always ready to ask questions and explain things. And he was very knowledgeable, very, a very, very fine teacher.
Speaker 2 00:37:48 Oh, that's one who do not live in India now, then you're not in India. Uh, where are you actually for
Speaker 3 00:37:54 The, for the pet right at the moment I'm in Houston, Texas, which is where I've been for, um, most of the pandemic with my sister, um, for the past, uh, 30 years or so, I've spent four to six months of every year in India, but otherwise I've stayed in, um, many other places. Um, I have spend a certain amount of time and close that he cut in the forest and, uh, I am looking forward to getting back to India. Of course recently I haven't gotten back there. I, um, spend a month or two and, uh, or I have been spending a month or two in Australia every year, also in the rainforest. I like being away from the city, but I ended up spending lots of time in the city, including Houston and Bombay.
Speaker 2 00:38:48 Yes. Right, right, right. Oh, nice, wonderful. You writing a lot trudge and your, you wrote a lot of books on there. <inaudible>, that's what I knew about from you. Yes. Right.
Speaker 3 00:39:02 That about IRA Yvette about Joe Tisha and Dan divination. Right. And at the moment I'm, um, I'm actually, uh, translating a book called the, not the buck de Sada, which is, um, uh, a book and medieval Maharashtrian Marathi um, about the nine knots, much hinder, not dark, not et cetera. Who appear as, as members of the group of 84 sedans. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:39:39 Sure. Wow. Uh, I believe it says or teaches, is it their writings or teaching a Libra? Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:39:49 Right. Louis puck. Um, he, they, uh, it's um, it's stories about them, but they're stories that are meant to be used as, um, as ways of focusing one's attention when there is a problem in one's life. That one wants to overcome what they called in Sanskrit and Oop, Paya a remedy. Sure. So, I mean, there are all kinds of remedies you can take, uh, you can take herbal remedies, you can take mental remedies, but this is more of a mumbo jumbo sort of, uh, working with things. Wonderful.
Speaker 2 00:40:33 Well, I look forward to that, is that a, is there, are your Neil is down or you're in the middle of it?
Speaker 3 00:40:38 I'm halfway through it's chapters, um, of about roughly 200 verses per chapter. I'm in the middle of chapter 19. Um, and I have to say medieval Morati is not very few people, even in my roster that, uh, can read it nowadays, but I'm extremely fortunate that about, um, 10 years ago it was translated into Hindi, which I never studied, but I learned, um, I learned on the street just by talking, but with the help of the internet and all the online dictionaries, um, and with the help of a friend who did some rough translating for me, um, uh, it it's it's much. It's, that's an easier,
Speaker 2 00:41:27 You know, my friend does <inaudible> oh, yes.
Speaker 3 00:41:30 Oh yes, yes, yes. He might
Speaker 2 00:41:32 Be to help too. Hey, he's just translated, Darla autobiography freedom and exile into a Morati, I guess, motto modern Morati. Yeah. And he, uh, he subtly teased me into agree cause that ends with the Nobel prize. You know, the 1980, I mentioned 90, 30 years since then. So, uh, with his life. So he subtly invade me and rails me to do a small agenda, like an epilogue of major things that have happened to us homeless on that he's done since 1990, since he got the Nobel prize and that to be translated into Marathi. So that just recently happened by a funny synergy, you know, coincidence.
Speaker 3 00:42:18 It's excellent. I, I met per professor
Speaker 2 00:42:22 And try to do it, but I'm going to write it maybe 15, 20 pages on that. I have to do it. It's my duty as a hook, because I guess what do you have in my restaurant has maybe 30 or 40 million people. So as big as France, right?
Speaker 3 00:42:37 Maharashtra is no it's, um, you know, I'm not sure it's probably closer to a hundred million
Speaker 2 00:42:45 Hundred marrow. Yeah. 80
Speaker 3 00:42:47 To a hundred somewhere in there. The K-pop Bombay itself has, uh, Bombay is the number 10 on the mega city list. And it's about 26 million.
Speaker 2 00:43:00 Oh, just, just all. Wow. And putting
Speaker 3 00:43:03 7 million,
Speaker 2 00:43:05 A hundred million. I didn't realize it was so big. It's incredible. That's something like that. Growth. When I first got to India in 62, there was only 300 million people there. Yes. And I was, it looked like a lot of people even then now, like, you know, that's why my, of course my undying aim and hope in life also is to reunite Pakistan and Bangladesh to the one grade sub continent. And they could throw in Afghanistan and I overcome that terrible thing, the British dared to do, to inflict on, on the sub-continent and, and create this awful situation of the push. Now, China is using most nastily, the communist era to oppress India on the worst way by buying. They claimed they're buying Pakistan, which of course is a failed military state. And, uh, it's, uh, it's just, I think they can, they will inevitably be reunited and we just have to do it somehow.
Speaker 2 00:44:06 You know, it, I don't know if, you know, there's a think tank in Mumbai, you may know, I forgot what her name is. Well, I have some of their publications who they hit. One of them studied the opportunity costs of the division, just economically, you know, trying to divide the Indus valley and the fiber horrors. Right. It's hopeless, you know? And, um, and I think that's the only way that then China will behave to your politically when the sub content is again, the biggest, the biggest richest thing on the planet. Right. And that would be the case because it's just unbelievable to have these, these religious, as you know, uh, states, you know, that are that, uh, like pack, no, that are pure right. Non pluralistic. In other words, really it's foundationally non-policy right. When India is original, the pluralistic and made this way beyond America, as a melting pot of actually India, right. For thousands of years, absorbent, all kinds of weird motorcycle gains.
Speaker 3 00:45:10 Now, you know, some people are of the opinion that China may fragment itself. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:45:17 It may I agree. Is that right? Is that what the Joe did she say?
Speaker 3 00:45:21 I actually, I have a friend who's a joke that she, who does believe that. And certainly, um, China, uh, as we know, has, has, as with India, there have always been pieces have been swallowed and then spat back out again. And, um, I certainly wouldn't be, um, upset to see, um, the PRC be, uh, split back up into two or three or more different.
Speaker 2 00:45:54 Yeah. Localization is the trend that we have to see everywhere. All these other things are Imperial leftovers that are useless. You know, it was less Imperial leftovers. They, the idea that somebody from like India, if you go to Lhasa as you, I don't know if you ever went up there, but when you go to a class, you have to be on Beijing time. Yeah. No, it does arise in certain seasons of tennis or, I mean, it's ridiculous. It's really absurd that they won't allow time zones. So, I mean, it says typical totalitarian attitude and, um, anyway, that's my fantasy to, and I think it could be easily done actually, but we'd have to, I don't know how to do it, but I've talked to people who you have their ancestral home near LA, you know, were Hindus and they still pine about it. And, uh, and Muslims who used to live somewhere and, um, in UOP or someplace in the Amalia had a summer place up in the hula valley or something. And they, and they, they pine for that too. It was a ridiculous, also thing that I think Churchill was really responsible, frankly, they blame it on Gandy or Jenna or an even neighbor or something as a way of blaming it on narrow G. But, uh, I think it really was the British as a whole way of holding India back, you know, cause they knew India could be the biggest country in the world easily, you know, instead of always, it was before, you know,
Speaker 3 00:47:21 Well, we, we do know that Churchill was responsible for, he may have been responsible for the beginnings of the 1943 bungled famine, but he was certainly responsible for not sending any food to bungle and taking food away from India in order to stockpile it in the UK. We know that's true. That's been proven.
Speaker 2 00:47:50 No, he was a horrible colonialist there. No question.
Speaker 3 00:47:53 We also know that in 1840, before the Brits actually took over the entire subcontinent that India is, uh, was producing about 25% of global GDP. And we know that in 18, 19 47, about a hundred years later, it share of global GDP had gone down to somewhere between four and 6%.
Speaker 2 00:48:21 Right, right. There's rule raw materials for the British industry and so on. Yeah. So
Speaker 3 00:48:25 It's a little bit difficult to F to, for, for us to, to thank that. The effects, uh, the, the, the, what the British provided to India was worth what they took away from
Speaker 2 00:48:39 It. No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. I completely agree. I totally agree with that. And do you know? I don't know, but I learned, I knew a sky called Harry K. Hill. We used to work for the Hinduja brothers, but he passed away long sometime back. But he told me the thing that I never knew about why Indian studies is so backward in America, I had never really know you have these huge east Asia departments everywhere. And then Indian studies is nowhere in America, academically, you know, Indian historian at Columbia, or was a Pakistani oriented guy. You know, for example, in the end, the songs Asia doesn't have a department at Columbia it's in middle Eastern studies, for example. I mean, that's you find that everywhere. And he finally told me because the Brits knew that the American Indian nexus would unseat them, like, cause the Americans do have a little bit rebellious streak about we rebelled against the empire, right.
Speaker 2 00:49:41 Although we've always had a section that always wanted to behave like the British empire, which is behaving like them, but still, but, but, but we did break away and um, he told me the story. Did you ever hear this? That tipo sold, Tom sent three chests of treasure to the revolutionaries? No. And he was a Francophile and he didn't want the British to take over. He liked the French and had, I had heard the Gaddafi of their day, you know what I mean? And the slaughter him and then all three were stolen on the way by the ship captains, who he entrusted them to other different kinds of persons, but none of them reached the, you know, the continental army or George Washington, never, but he did send them. And the Brits knew that he sent them. You see? So then they blocked American missionaries to go to India so that the grandchildren of the missionaries who then went to save China, they're all the psychologists and the American universities. And there are no grandchildren of no missionaries from Mumbai or Chennai or Bangalore or wherever it is. There is none because they were there had some British missionaries, but no Americans, they wouldn't let Americans go and save. Save for Jesus, saved a few sneaked in maybe under auspices of some British missionary society, but they really wouldn't allow mainstream American missionaries there. And, um, and so that, that's how we don't have, we don't have that tradition of intelligence, like the Scientologists to explain that to me, Eric,
Speaker 3 00:51:19 I think I met Harry K. Hall once. Was he the us console in Bombay for a while? I met him a couple of times long ago.
Speaker 2 00:51:30 He was, he was a jolly fellow. I came here, he helped me squeeze. I created a chair when I was chairman of the religion department. I created a chair of a Hindu studies, which then one of the vice presidents later threw it away and gave the capital that I squeezed out of SP hindered Hinduja cause he never wanted to give hard money. No. They only like give a, a grant written name of his son. I don't know if you know that story, but anyway, his wife was kind of forcing him and then I forced him to make a portion of his yearly grant collect into hard money. And we were up to 1.2 million and we only had 300,000 to go. It could have seeded a Hinduism chair, which we don't have. And that religion department, we haven't had Jack Hallie in Bernard who happens to be into the boxy studies, right?
Speaker 2 00:52:21 Why would we don't have a regular chair? And they all, you know, those kinds of places in American universities, they revert back to the Abrahamic creations, right? There was some lift service to Islam, you know, but they, they never, they, they very uneasy further east, you know, basically like I created a Tibet in the Tibetan studies chair that I then occupied. I didn't even get it raised, but anyway, I raised the money so that I shouldn't be replaced by someone in the field and there, and in the first replacement cycle, which is now they are hassling me about trying to change the charter so they could hire someone in Japan studies or some bullshit, which I won't let them do it. So we may be at legal loggerheads actually, because I arranged the money. I channeled it to a nonprofit, they just know dishonest, you know, the triumphalist American academics, by the way, where's your IRA, Aveda book being published.
Speaker 3 00:53:18 Um, uh, I, I have, uh, a number of different publishers. Um, the one that I sent to is published in fact, by a publishing company that Dr. LOD has in New Mexico, it's called the, the Ayurvedic press. It, it in India, it was originally published by penguin and it pinned when India still publishes it in India.
Speaker 2 00:53:44 Oh, good. I didn't know that that's I thought it was not yet published. Oh
Speaker 3 00:53:47 No. These are, uh, many of them in this country are published by a company called Lotus press. And, um, a couple of them are published by a small company called Nama Rupa.
Speaker 2 00:54:01 Oh yeah. That's what's his name? Eddie stern. Robert Moses Kenisha Swami. Oh, what's his name? Uh, the Yogi, right. Not Moto, but he does number of Eddie, Eddie star, Eddie
Speaker 3 00:54:15 And, and his partner, Robert Moses who lives in, uh, New Hampshire.
Speaker 2 00:54:19 Right, right, right, right. Yeah. I had some dialogues for Eddie over the years. I know he introduced me, got me to like, uh, like an Asia more so. Yes. Like, like Katie K D caused me to fall in love with Hollomon finally, I didn't write yet. Had a mom before that, until I, until K D and, and named Karoli Baba. I met him. I never really met him growing Baba, sadly, because of my past relationship with rom downs when he was Richard Alpert. And somehow I never made it over there, even though I lived on Maura would do. Maura was a favorite place, you know, Lama, Govinda living there. Yes. I spent time up there in the early seventies. And did you meet Lama Govinda? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Oh, oh, oh my goodness. He was a dear friend of ours and although he preferred, he liked my wife more than me.
Speaker 2 00:55:11 My wife was half German and half Swedish and he was, she was like a foster daughter to him, you know? Ah, and she had lost her father when she was a teenager. So she gravitated to the older patron, you know, patrons like figures like that. So then when he first looked at me, he was a little suspicious. You were like, Madame MACRA. I don't know about that. You know, trans more interesting. So I was doing my Democrats at that time scholarship, but he was great. Lemme go into it's truly great. He was a great scholar too. You know, he was, uh, he was at a right Nikkei town. You know, he was really, really wonderful guy mistake. He, he, uh, discovered his former life journalist story and the, and his wife child's book. He tells it where he discovered he was the reincarnation of a sort of somewhat obscure German poet. Oh,
Speaker 3 00:56:05 I read that book about 40 years ago. I don't remember the details of it at this point.
Speaker 2 00:56:10 He was, he was writing when he was a teenager who was writing a book called the ultimate book of philosophy. And, uh, and then he met someone in, lived in Capria at that time because his parents were projo hippies. And he lived in Capri. He had a Bolivian mother and a German father. Wow. And, um, then he met someone at a, at a party who kept staring at him and he didn't know why. Then he later he asked the lady and she said, well, you look just like some of the huge to know German poet named so-and-so and you look so strikingly much life that poet, that that's why he was looking at you, but he didn't try to talk to you or anything. Then the host system. So then he looked up the book, you know, he didn't ha he got on not Kindle.
Speaker 2 00:56:55 He just got the book somehow from Germany. And the book was exactly what he was writing. I mean, sentence by sentence. Wow. So that's when he became all reincarnation. That's how he got interested in before that he was interested in north African Sufism, but that brought him into Buddhism. He tells that story. That's in the book. And I know it's not that it's only in a pager to it now, but he was like that amazing guy. Wow. Really serious person at one of our, and he just loved the Mount Kyla. She went there. Then I traveled around, he had this wonderful Parsi wife. Oh, really famous from Mumbai.
Speaker 3 00:57:39 I, um, spend quite a bit of time with Parsis myself.
Speaker 2 00:57:43 Oh, really great. Yeah. Great. Okay. Well listen, how can we, so do you ever come up here? Can you ever teach, like your do retreats or weekends or?
Speaker 3 00:57:54 Um, I, I used to, of course now everything has changed now. I do, uh, all my teaching on, um, on zoom, but, um, hopefully at some point in the not too distant future, um, I have, uh, uh, uh, Katie and I do like to do things together in person. So, and Katie lives, not that far away from you.
Speaker 2 00:58:20 Yes, he does. He's nearby. So,
Speaker 3 00:58:22 Um, it w uh, you know, we're S he and I certainly have discussed the possibility of doing something there.
Speaker 2 00:58:29 All good. I know that might be fun. And, uh, I'm very much, I don't know if you have heard that, but the dialogue has added to his three aims of life. I don't know if you know that framework either. Um, not very well. The last 15, 20 years, he has proclaimed where he's analyzed what he did, I guess. And then he makes it a thing. If I have three aims in life, as a human being to support the religion of kindness, you know, the transcend dental, not any particular denomination, even secular in a secular humanism, even right. And as a human being, as a, as a Buddhist monk, I, my aim is to have world religions, not fight each other and, you know, not compete and find the, find the treasures of each other and beyond just tolerance, real respect and combat operation. And third one, you know, he's told, I don't know how many posts to sort of agree, not to convert, except just learn from each other, you know, and keep their own people.
Speaker 2 00:59:29 And he, he promises and he never does try to convert anybody to himself. And, um, and third one is as a Tibet and just speak up for his people. Those have been the sort of traditional things now for the last couple of decades, but he's added lately. I think, well, he says longer than I heard about it for some reason, but he's emphasizing it. Right. So then I sort of got into it for theme is bringing Indian, inner science, the Buddhist part of it. Then the Landa library, the last London library, part of it back from Tibet to India, but not as Buddhism, but as a compliment, like, uh, like, uh, to Indian science, Indian, inner science, to get the Indians who uphold their inner science against the materialists, you know, and it give them a reinforcement to uphold that inner science against the materials.
Speaker 2 01:00:22 So that core theme in life is he's clear. He says his he's only lived 24 years in Tibet eating Momo. And he's lived since then 60, 62 years in India, rice and doll. So he is a set of if yeah, and especially a son of Nanda, and therefore he wants to make this, you know, this would say has this fourth theme that he's been doing that. But of course it depends. I've been bringing back that flavor. You go into everywhere, but the point is now that's a formal aim, you know, like four tables. Right. And so therefore I naturally, I find myself very fascinated in doing that. And I, you know, do you know, George Firestein who I never met? I was once shocked to read in one of his yoga books that if anybody wants to really go wherever it is in yoga, they have to learn about Madre Ana.
Speaker 2 01:01:22 He wrote, and then he sadly is not with us to pursue that. And then Mallinson, you know, has discovered the Amber to city thing, which is not really, he's taking his time to publish it, but it's sort of out it's there, uh, of the source of maybe how <inaudible> the whole chakra thing and all of this sort of thing. And we know, again, Sanderson's insistence that it all comes from the itself. Yeah. Yeah. But who cares? You know, in other words, it's, it's both of them have it going by, and it's all great in either way. And I, I w it's one of my on my list is to study other more thoroughly to try to find out more about his, you know, Tundra Asara and his time, whatever it's called, you know, his commentary on the Malini Vijaya and those things now, too, because he put, he quotes colon chakra, and he knows about it.
Speaker 2 01:02:14 And as you know, the college Ramondo has all the Hindu deities party as indivisible from the central COVID for in fact, they're in their different places. But, and the fun thing that I love about it, I don't know if you've ever looked at the detail, but in the, you know, there's three months, three buildings, you know, mine buildings, which building bodybuilding. Right. But in the speech building Mrs. <inaudible> Mrs. Brahma, Mrs. Vishnu, I messaged him and everybody misses. This is scandal. They are the big dominant ones in the ambulance. They're yummy X. In other words, guys are a little happy little guys in their laps, you know what I mean? Wow. And then in the body Mandela, they revert to being the subordinate female, you know, and, and, and get Asian and Tamara, and all of them are big shock. She had ha that they have their Shaq taste, you know, and of course, Scott attacker has, he has 10 jackets around him naturally, and they, and they are all new interviews with them.
Speaker 2 01:03:16 So it really, you know, whatever the story of Shambala really means it's really something very mergeable with cashmere shyness. I mean, that's why they are so close. I think I, I don't, I don't know the other side of it well enough to be able to really do it, but anyway, I'm trying to develop something, but Richard Freeman students, I call it yoga so that people will, will have kind of Mahayana, not just <inaudible> even, even stop it. Amanda, uh, you know, or protein milk Cheyanna is that I could call it the, I never liked the word Hinayana. I followed <inaudible> and the team, different schools of that, uh, which is all very necessary to it's all part of tantra. As far as I'm concerned, part of our training site, they're all interwoven, the three of them. And so I'm trying to develop that. At least my I'm a, I'm a lousy Yogi, but there's been too sedentary, too much of a desk jockey as the Japanese call it.
Speaker 2 01:04:18 But all I'm trying to stretch out a little bit now and straighten out from my upper back instead of hunting over computer, all the tracking is good, but anyway, I'm trying to do that. So I'm so thrilled to rediscover you and I hope we can have a real dialogue. The other thing is, you know, I was, um, I was, um, in denture talk about the interpreter I was in dentured by the Dalai Lama and my Mongolian route, a spiritual friend to set up something that would translate the whole tenure. Oh. You know, back into English. And when I complained that they said, oh, not in one life naturally. He said, you know, you just set up the thing and then three generations later, maybe it'll be a bit more done. And that's why I created the thing at Columbia to be sort of an engine of that.
Speaker 2 01:05:09 And, um, and then there's all those medical texts, or you mentioned, I was thrilled to see, you mentioned that there are certain Ayurveda's texts even that are only available in Tibet because of the burning of the library of Nolan di you know, we really need a project over the years. I've had various donors say, oh, I would like to support translation of medical texts and blah, blah, blah. And then I didn't have the people and the money or anything to sort of try to, even if they didn't, they weren't billionaires. Unfortunately. So I, I just couldn't get going on that yet, but I really would like to see that, you know, the Eric Rosen, uh, um, um, what's his name? Eric Rosen burn. No, it's not Rosenberg. Eric Rosen, my friend, Aaron. He was doing a Dr. NIDA and he said, Rosa Rosen, Bush sets it. Yeah,
Speaker 3 01:06:10 Go ahead. I have heard of him and heard of Dr. NIDA, but I don't believe I've met either.
Speaker 2 01:06:16 Right, right. So anyway, Eric Nita doesn't really know that much, but Eric's going to need a students. And he's pretty good with Tibet medicine, kind of a practitioner, I think in India. And he had our gardens and things going here and there in India at different times, but he's um, but he also had studied with IRA Vedic gurus, and he sort of as good about the bridge of that. He wants to work on that. And his is, he's developed a school for Tibet medicine and in Nepal, uh, before COVID, anyway, I think it still exists and they will hope to revive it. And, uh, he's, uh, he's really good guy. You'd like him. We'd like you get along with you too. So anyway, I hope we can do that kind of thing in the future. It's a little bit, if you're inclined.
Speaker 3 01:07:00 Well, let's, let's see what happens. I mean, hopefully, um, things will move forward and they will certainly move forward in the way they're supposed to move forward. And, um, I'm, uh, uh, I'm certainly, uh, excited by all the various possibilities that are there. I'm especially excited that, you know, professor <inaudible> because I first met him, I don't know, 40 years ago when he was still living in Poona before he moved to Sarnia.
Speaker 2 01:07:31 Right. But he's back in an hour.
Speaker 3 01:07:34 Poona yeah. That's, that's great. He, um, I mean, he, he, he's not only so knowledgeable, he's just such a fine, fine example of what a, a human being and the scholar can be when they come together and a happy,
Speaker 2 01:07:52 Yeah. He works with us. Long-term on the Grissom. Magia great. Good. It's about your security, uh, called <inaudible>, which we think is the same gender, same NARAL during the same time there is, you know, the Westerners have them all the 10th century. Right. So nervous about tantra. It's been embarrassed about their misunderstanding of it, right. That they can believe that it's as old as the Buddha. And anyway, Shrikant did a great, uh, uh, editing of the Sanskrit of the <inaudible>. So, and we worked on trial. Um, we're trying to translate it very slowly. And, um, I I'll I'll, I will try to send you these things. Do you have, are you, is that where you're planning to stay in Houston for some time?
Speaker 3 01:08:40 Um, well, I'm, I'm hoping to get back to, to Bombay. Uh Vimmel and Amanda's foster daughter is not well, and I've been staying with her family for whenever I'm in Bombay for the past, uh, 45 years.
Speaker 2 01:08:59 So,
Speaker 3 01:09:01 Um, I do need to go back and there's some things, uh, in, in her, in that, uh, reality that needs to, what
Speaker 2 01:09:09 Do you think about his Delta variants and all this crap in India? Do you think that if they can balance out or, well, I
Speaker 3 01:09:16 Mean, it seems to me that that, that the, the virus is doing what it is, what is the right thing for it, which is becoming more, uh, more transmissible. And it hasn't quite started moving in the direction of being less deadly. It's not that deadly, but it, it needs to be, it needs to become, it's moving in the direction of what it's going to become, which is it will become a common cold virus. At some point, I see three other Corona viruses are already common, cold viruses. So it's not an intelligent virus that kills off the people that it infects. You just want them to spread as a virus. You just want to spread killing people is inefficient.
Speaker 2 01:10:08 How do we understand from IFA points? How do we understand virus and bacteria difference? I mean, something that their monster spread seems to be motivated, and yet it's not supposed to be sentient.
Speaker 3 01:10:19 Uh, well, I'm in, in, in, uh, I'm I, of course there are many people who practice. I are veteran who are quite materialistic, and they only think about things in materialistic terms, but thanks to the influence of Venmo, Amanda, in my opinion, everything is sentiment. It's certain things are less sentiment than others, right. But when it comes to something that has the ability, uh, like a bacteria, bacteria are extraordinarily sentiment, we're finding out, uh, I've been doing quite a bit of studying about the microbiome recently. And, uh, it's wonderful. And, and it's, it's just so characteristic of human beings that, um, we have assumed for so long that we are by virtue, not being literal parasites, that we are independent somehow of the environment, when really a human being I liked, I liked the fancy word that is being applied. Now we are really holo by aunts
Speaker 2 01:11:29 And a holo
Speaker 3 01:11:30 By aunt is a bunch of different organisms that come together and behave like one organism. So I liken is kind of like a BOLO by aunt.
Speaker 2 01:11:39 That's true. And that's what a human being
Speaker 3 01:11:41 Is. If we didn't have all these bacteria and viruses and funghi, we would not exist, there would be no human.
Speaker 2 01:11:49 Yes, yes. Right, right. Fantastic. Hold on. By, on whole buy-ins United seeking to be invented by ons. Yes. Seeking
Speaker 3 01:12:02 To transcend that.
Speaker 2 01:12:05 Infinite. I love that. That's so wonderful. Well, listen, you know, this is probably, you know, the, the audience can't stand it to go on and on as I was like, but it's such an honor and a delight to meet you well, and a great pleasure and honor to meet you. And I'll look
Speaker 3 01:12:23 Forward to, to meeting you the next time and, and may all of your projects move forward.
Speaker 2 01:12:31 Well, let's work together. I like to work together on this inner science fourth theme of his holiness, his life. Yes. And I like to find out the Abby never. And the, and I've already done that, those other guys in Kashmir and who they really were talking to because the Buddhists don't know. And then where, how did the Shambala people get involved with them and where did they come from? And obviously they know everything that's going on in India, the Shambala people, you know, and, um, which you can tell from the way they discuss it. And you know, the point that he got and these people, the author of the demon of Probar. And so, um, um, I know it's really a fun team, so thank you so much, Robert, they grade rubber, so Rhoda, and they can find your works at the Lotus press and the LOD Lodz press also.
Speaker 3 01:13:24 Yes, sir. You can just, you can go to my website and it's easy enough to find everything it's D R S V O B O D a Dr. Swoboda. Dr. D Dr. No, no. Doc just know that
Speaker 2 01:13:41 <inaudible> that Russian, uh, check, check. Okay.
Speaker 3 01:13:47 My father's parents were from Moravia.
Speaker 2 01:13:50 Oh, okay. Okay. Kevin, you, you forgot your check. I
Speaker 3 01:13:54 Never learned, my father could not speak English until he was six. He only spoke, uh, check and, and Spanish. Well, Mexican cause all his, all the kids he played with were Mexican and, and his parents and, and, uh, brother and sister only spoke check. Alright.
Speaker 2 01:14:12 Sound great. Okay. Okay. Robert, thank you so much. Okay. Yes, sir. <inaudible> as they say, <inaudible> people remember it by taking my art friend, Robert L and ed. Well, my yoga friend, a painter friend, he said he just remembers Idris trashing the lake. Well, whichever mnemonic works for you,
Speaker 1 01:15:02 The Bob Thurman podcast is brought to you in part through the generous support of the Tibet house, us Menlo membership, community, and listeners like you, and is distributed. You're a creative commons, new derivatives license. Please feel free to share like, and post on your favorite social media platform, Tashi. And thanks for tuning in.
