Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:14 Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful and some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house, the control center in America, all best wishes. Have a great day.
Speaker 1 00:00:48 This is episode 260 a conversation.
Speaker 2 00:01:16 Hello? I tell you, you shaved your head just now for soccer. Yeah, I shave every day, every day because I'm bald with a, with a knife or with a buzz. Say machine the blade, the blade blade. Very scary, but that's very brave of you. It's okay. A teacher gives you one guy he used to do with a straight blade. Now it's not a safety blade, but we're going, gonna raise her. You know, he would just try it out. But he, as he got older, he nicked a few places. He used to do it by hand. Nice to see you. You're looking so happy. Thank you, Jerry. Who is the, who is the guardian behind you? Details.
Speaker 3 00:02:12 That's a Tundra. Who is that?
Speaker 2 00:02:18 Chapel by six arm macula. <inaudible> yeah, 6,000 macula. Oh, I didn't see the other arms. Oh yeah. He looked a little skinnier, his legs then usually he's looking a little, he's been on a diet. Yeah, different posture. That's great. That's really great. Well, I'm sure. Happy to talk to you, you know, I'm very sorry that, um, the COVID we just, I just finished the retreat 10 days, so I'm a little tired and I missed you. It would have been so great to have. And um, I know we all can't travel. I never take, but I hope at sometime soon we can make a plan. Do you have a plan to come to the states at some point or not yet? Right, because of the COVID?
Speaker 3 00:03:11 Uh, no, I have a plan probably end of summer or beginning of the winter around that time.
Speaker 2 00:03:17 Oh, really slowly. Can we try to make an event with you at the Mela? Yes. Yes. I will be maybe, maybe one talk in the city at like one evening talk there and then, then like a weekend retreat or something at my, like, can we do that November or whatever time? Yes. Yes, definitely. I will be happy to do that. That's that's wonderful. That's fun. You're having a nice time in Germany. Yeah. It's okay. It's just a, what's it like in Germany? How is it? Uh, it, I think it depends where you are.
Speaker 3 00:03:57 Yeah. It depends where you are. If you're just roaming in the forest in the park and engaging with ordinary people is fine, but people that, you know, but then if you're in a, some kind of a supermarket and some certain places, and then the attitude towards you're slightly different because you're a foreigner.
Speaker 2 00:04:14 Do you ever go to, do you, do you interact at all with yoga people, yoga people and you know, like, you know, they have yoga centers there in Berlin. You know,
Speaker 3 00:04:27 I started to engage with some ordinary people so far at the moment, people who are interested in Dharma and then they have their own, how do I say meditation center administration organization? So we just engage.
Speaker 2 00:04:41 What do you, what you think of yoga people? Like how are teachers sort of hitting? They're kind of like Hindu oriented, right? They like, uh, they like chanting back T how do you, what do you think about that?
Speaker 3 00:04:55 I, I don't have any negative opinion, you know, but I think, uh, you know, when they do this kind of a hot yoga, I think it would be nice if they could do it. If they could have the mindset as, uh, the vagina, um, yoga.
Speaker 2 00:05:13 Yes. It's all good. They do love our boundary. Right? Yoga. We must, we must introduce you to that. You know, I'd be very happy to share with you. I'll try to think of something to share with you that would explain at least what my idea is about Badger yoga. I would love that I would love to have your collaboration with that. Do you do that stuff that they do the gamers? Do you know where they do this Baba <inaudible>
Speaker 3 00:05:45 Hi. Yes. Yes. I entered three S retrieve when I was 14 years old, came out when I was 18. So the, the, the yoga starts around the middle of second. So you have to do it.
Speaker 2 00:06:00 So can you, when you jump, can you jump up and cross your legs in the air and then fall down on your butt? Yeah, I
Speaker 3 00:06:06 Did it on my first day. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:06:11 That's really tough. You know, I never learned that lately. I was trying to do with Dr. NIDA. It was, uh, hurt my back right away. I'm too old, but that's wonderful. You know how to do that. So you are about your yoga teacher automatically. That's really great. Terrific. Really, really great. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. And that's really nice. Um, so, well, this is fun, you know, and the other thing, you know, my motive in doing the buttery yoga, I came from to discovery. There's a guy in England was naming balance. No, sir. James of melons. He's uh, he's some kind of Lord, sir, James Mallinson inherited, you know, he looks like a Hindu saddle.
Speaker 2 00:07:01 There's Lord, sir, James, you know, I didn't physically meet him. E-mails so his teacher was a very strict, um, Sanskritist very good one, but he also had some, I think, wrong idea, but I never argued with him in public. And his idea was that what is tantra is just copying Shai bites. And it was started by Chavez because he had a teacher in Kashmir who was a strong guy by and Shiva Tundra. So somehow that teacher persuaded him that check with somebody, you know, Demchak is just copy copying chocolate stuff, which in a way it is from our point of view, the legend of subduing, the, the GJ right there.
Speaker 2 00:08:00 And, um, so they're, they're connecting with the whole network of the Shiva people. You feel that collage, you know, cognitive switch on it. So anyway, anyway, he had a deer, but I never argued on purpose. I didn't want to argue with him because I thought the Western scholars of religion and things, if two Asian or Indian scholars have a bigger argument that becomes well known. And they say, oh, all those people who studied Buddhism and Hinduism and Daoism, whatever it is, you know, they're always just fight all the time. They just they're terrible. They use that as an excuse. So I said, I'm not going to fight with him, you know? And that's why I left him alone, you know? And he works with lemme one dude, <inaudible> from the pal who goes to Oregon to know about them. Him, no, I don't know. I don't really know much either, but there's a Hindu Swami in Oregon who has a big place.
Speaker 2 00:09:09 And then there's one Lama from DePaul who goes and works with him. And, uh, they sort of do kind of their own bridge, but it's very much in the line that, that professor, that he retired anyway, his student had a book called the Alberta city <inaudible>, which was from 16th century or something. And it had a lot of language of shy by tantra. Okay. And so he thought this would be the great proof that a professor did. Okay. So that is everything. So he had the guy looking for earlier versions of that text, and then he found the 12th century, I think, 12th or 13th earlier one. And to his horror, all the language was Adriana. Instead of Sheba, everything was fine. So you had a language. So then the student was made a big announcement that he was going to publish and make a book about it. And he went to see the teacher and then suddenly it's big. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:19 And I wrote him and I said, look, we don't have to wait for you to write a book. Why don't you share the thing where, all right, you read your own book. Of course we'll read it, but he wouldn't do it. He said, I wait till I write the book. He said, but then he hasn't written. So, but anyway, he never let us, I knew about it. He wrote it. He told, he told what it is. Okay. So that helped, that made me take his time to, to connect it to, you know, and various people have tried to do so in the past. Cause you know, a lot of people do yoga. Right. And uh, but, um, they didn't do a good job, not yet, you know? So, um, I don't think I did a good job yet either, but slowly. I think we should do that because the yoga practitioners, a lot of them are just casual, you know, they just do it for physical health. Some guys do it to find dates, you know, I didn't know that have very superficial motive, you know, but, um, but then others who have real spiritual in dress, you know, and then they, they get confused about all the chakra, you know, it's a dining hall.
Speaker 2 00:11:39 Oh, there's so many different versions about, so, so they, it's interesting for them to have a more comprehensive perspective, something like that. No. Right.
Speaker 3 00:11:51 I think that people, individuals who are interested in any type of yoga, but especially the, how do I say the number yoga, you know, like, like then you go my yoga. I mean, I can speak for the Negro, my yoga. Um, I think people need to spend time to have some sort of mental preparation, you know, some sort of sharpness in their mind. Totally. And then, then adding the yoga is not really an issue. If you put preparation or some sort of foundation, and then they kind of go, you know, go ahead with their own imagination and then it goes off the track, you
Speaker 2 00:12:27 Know? Right. Well, of course you could do. I mean, um, if you think of Surya, namaskara, you know, the one thing that they do in yoga centers, right. They, you know, they, they bow and then they do downward dog and then they do kind of push up. You know, I've seen that one, some pictures, I think, you know, for example, how would you handle that in relation to, to learn, to draw in, go into, you did a hundred thousand chats hotline. So you did a hundred thousand foot, there's a, there's
Speaker 3 00:13:00 A two, one drug, there's a general preliminary windrow and then there's a new GUMA windrow. So that's the <inaudible> I told her, I mean, you don't visualize a bunch of Soto, but rather you visualize the app and then you recite the AR and then you meditate with that. So that becomes like a purification as a different group, yoga as well,
Speaker 2 00:13:24 You know? Yeah. So, you know, right. So you mean when you do a hundred thousand frustration, you don't think of it. You're making frustration to the guru and the lineage. No,
Speaker 3 00:13:34 We, we keep it very much to the group itself. Yes. Yes. <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:13:44 Chicken. Okay. <inaudible> jobs to child, et cetera. But when you do a hundred thousand, yes, yes,
Speaker 3 00:13:54 Yes. But just the, just the purification stage is slightly different and unique in the shamba tradition because you don't visualize the visor Sato, you visualize the R as the main visualization or just, just the letter R and then you recite the, uh, uh, uh, then you meditate. Yeah. Then, then you decide again like that few times. So that's like, um, how should I say, um, purification stage and the Mandela is same and similar.
Speaker 2 00:14:27 Yeah. So it's not a total, it's a real art think of the whole letter, right? Not like do more auto. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:37 No, not, not, no, not like that. Just more like just a clear light. Uh, and then you visualize that, then you meditate,
Speaker 2 00:14:44 You do that while you're mowing.
Speaker 3 00:14:47 Uh, no. That's, uh, while you're at Boeing, it's different, you know, because Jim <inaudible> <inaudible> right. So you don't necessarily recite the <inaudible> instead of you recite. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:15:07 That's it, well, that's great. That's wonderful. Did you know that in, um, in Britain, Brahmanism, Hinduism, I think that creates the universe, you know, it's the Brahma sound and that's where the universe is. It is in, uh, Tim Sunday when it's, uh, you know, what they call Prolia dissolved, you know, the coincidence, the, uh, uh, the coincidence are, have no vowels. So it's not like Adam's lying around this, like continents lying around with no sound and then the comes and then the short, ah, and then they pick up the continents and then the world emerges like mantra, you know, they have theory the Hindus, they have a theory like that. So I it's very primal, right? Yes. Yes. That's very, very interesting.
Speaker 3 00:16:01 Yeah. So, you know, because like we do the ordinary yoga, like with the, you know, with the buzzer Sato Mandela, prostate 100,000. And then, and then after that, we add all the different day to practice with the fire poojas and everything where the shamatha Vipassana, all of that. And by the second year, then we do the new GUMA preliminary. I see it. And then we need
Speaker 2 00:16:28 Two, right. Two times, two times, 200,000 a month
Speaker 3 00:16:34 And a hundred thousand frustration. Yes. Yes. So, so like during the second year we do different preliminary. Yes. And then during the first year of retreat, we do, uh, you know, that's like a very ordinary preliminary that everybody knows the text, you know, the one that we always interact with.
Speaker 2 00:16:53 Wow. That's so cool. So yeah. When you were doing persuasion, how many prescription could you do in 10 minutes or something? I'm terrible.
Speaker 3 00:17:02 I'm terrible. With the frustation. I'm terrible with the prostitution really? Uh, I mean, I could do like what a 100, 100 times they, you know, off cross station in 10 minutes. 10 to 15 minutes. 10 minutes. Yeah. 10, 10, 15 minutes. But then again, you can't keep the pace.
Speaker 2 00:17:23 You don't look seconds. So each one, like six seconds.
Speaker 3 00:17:27 Yes. Yes. But you can't keep the pace. That's the problem. You can't keep the pace, you know, you can't do it once. And then of course you get tired. Oh, hi. We're slowing down.
Speaker 2 00:17:43 That's amazing. So how many could you do maximum in one day
Speaker 3 00:17:47 Maximum one day? I don't know. I don't remember it
Speaker 2 00:17:50 Really. I would say, could you do 10 if you're 110 minutes. So if you could keep that pace in a hundred minutes, that's less than two hours. You could do 1000, but I think you get too tired, right?
Speaker 3 00:18:07 No, no, no. I am not. I'm really bad with the position. Other people are doing much better in the retreat. Yeah. Well, you
Speaker 2 00:18:14 Know, some of the, in some of the biographies of the great masters, like Jadah, Projet others, they say he did a million, like 3 million times hundred thousand, but you can't even imagine, is there any way to abbreviate, like you don't get all the way up or are you, is there any abbreviation method that people use? No,
Speaker 3 00:18:37 I think I have seen fully down fully, fully, fully down. No nonsense, no, no nonsense in the middle. I've seen people who have done with a great dedication. And I'm like, when you go around the stupa, when you walk around and you see the dilemmas and amongst when they do cross, you can see them in a very high paced. Well, very long time. And even for the person, like when you see people like that, you know, you admire that. You know,
Speaker 2 00:19:10 Although I have a little doubt about Tom, because he, they say he did a hundred thousand to each of 35 hours of dome shots of repentance, you know? And, uh, but then his rest of his life for the next 20, some years, he had terrible back pain. He had a lot of back trouble, you know, he would get really bad back. So I think it's like, you can probably injure yourself if you do too much. I don't know. I can't, no one can believe they really did. But I saw, and, uh, I went to OCA <inaudible> on the gal mountain near Gigi, and I saw his retreat house. And it would, there was like, had, you could see footprint in the wood almost, you know? Yes. And then there was a stone where he offered Mandela instead of a silver thing. It was a stone. And it, it had, like, you heard a blood was like soaked into the stone. It was like a brown color. Wow. Rubbing with arm like that. When doing the Mandela, supposedly, you know what I mean? You know, who knows? But, uh, it was very impressive. But anyway, I, I worry that he did, he hurt his back. Do do a lot of times, excuse certain type of person, but certain kind of body from 400,000 or no, they insist on a hundred thousand
Speaker 3 00:20:43 Course. They all the retreat monsters. And they always insist on 100, but then again, if you're physically can't do it and then you can't physically can't do it. You know, you're not left out because of lacing. That's right.
Speaker 2 00:20:56 Yeah. It was, there was your retreat master. Very strict. It's
Speaker 3 00:21:01 Not strict, but it was, you know, it's not strict comparison to, you know, a
Speaker 4 00:21:05 Few hundred years ago. Oh yeah. I'm sure
Speaker 2 00:21:08 He did he beat you? No, they didn't.
Speaker 3 00:21:11 Oh no, no, no. Everybody's adult
Speaker 2 00:21:15 All days. Do you use to hit all that? Oh, that, that I have no idea. I heard. Oh, okay. <inaudible> feels guilty because he used to do that kind of training when he was little with his brother, but the gurus had the two, 12, two whips. It had a real whip for the brother and they had some little piece of cloth for him. And then he used to be the naughty one who would provoke the brother and they'd have fights. And then the brother would get hit, hit more than him. But he w he was in tears. When the brother died. He, he confessed. He felt really guilty.
Speaker 3 00:21:58 Yeah. I think, I, I think I re I received that speech many, many times, I think, throughout the Facebook and in the real life. Also, he mentioned many times you did
Speaker 2 00:22:10 It all alone. You didn't have any other young Lama with you doing it when you did in the 3s retreat. Yeah. To have someone from history to how was the youngest one who were the youngest one? And there were other people doing nice here, I would say yes. Yes. Well, that's nice to have company. You
Speaker 3 00:22:26 Got like 18 of us, you know, each of us, we have a meditation. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:22:31 And where was that in sonar da or where
Speaker 3 00:22:34 Nearby Sonata, you know, nearby Sonata. So we have this retreat center and then like, you know, we stayed in the, in the meditation box. It was like three years and nine months instead of three years in three months, because we have to do color chakra retreat, you know? Yeah. So, oh, great.
Speaker 2 00:22:54 Just the mine Mandela. Mine. Mine.
Speaker 3 00:22:58 Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. It's nine Mandela, right? None. Oh, you did
Speaker 2 00:23:09 Call it, check a little number. Right. You gave the fitness retreat. Got Peloton. Oh, that's fantastic.
Speaker 3 00:23:14 Yeah, just the basic Reno retreat or collect chocolate, not the, you know, not the, not the whole Georgiou and then not the city.
Speaker 2 00:23:22 Did you use it in the, the chakra?
Speaker 3 00:23:25 Uh, <inaudible> the nine Mandela.
Speaker 2 00:23:32 Okay. Okay. Right. So you did, is it, was there a special Shanghai version of color chakra or was the basic same usual
Speaker 3 00:23:41 Thing? The same? The same as, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:23:47 Same, same, same. That's awesome. That's amazing. Did you do like how the right excuse me? Did I like it? Yeah. I mean, some people, like, I mean, I think mainly your retreat is, um, I mean, in Chicago, it's a Demchak is a big day. Yes,
Speaker 3 00:24:06 Yes, yes, yes. And the shampoo is also essential. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 00:24:15 Which I love, I called them job super blessed machine followed on by superbly. That's what I call and I really like it too, but, but I'm just saying, um, so then compared to that, w was common chakra, like secondary to, or gig, or did you see it? How did you see it compared to them
Speaker 3 00:24:38 Calm compared to them shock? Um, I still have more to learn about color chakra. I know. So, because in the retreat you don't have so much to learn or study about color chakra. Of course, you, you practice a little bit, obviously, you know, for a few months, but you don't get the same prior priority or the information as much as the, as a chunk of somebody's practice, because it's the end of the retreat. And then, you know, you, then, then the whole, there's lots of practice that you have accumulated, and then you have to practice all of that every day on the top of the nine months.
Speaker 4 00:25:15 And there's a lot of reading to do already
Speaker 2 00:25:18 Here, have the short forms, luckily, you know, but, uh, but I'm just curious because in Shanda, Cargill would view, considered a college park. Where might you mother Tundra
Speaker 3 00:25:30 In, in, in shampoo, we don't, we don't have a, how do I say so much information about the color chocolate, even though that many of the, how does say the, the, you know, how do I say the five Mandela, the five dates in Mandela practice, and then the <inaudible> chakra, sandbar, all these are mainly written by, you know,
Speaker 2 00:25:54 Uh, okay.
Speaker 3 00:25:56 Yes, yes, yes. But, uh, we don't have so much information about, uh, college chakra
Speaker 2 00:26:01 And how much know. So, I mean, some, some, some teachers think that, uh, before, before it sums up as time he refers, I forget who he referred to, but some of the masters considered Kala chakra to be what they call learn dual Tundra either, but Jayda and rejects that he says, it's a mother tongue and the family of Trevor's Dunbar and his mother's emphasis is on, is unclear light. So he doesn't like the category non dual, because he says all of the unexcelled, yoga, tantra, or non dual, you know, because all of them have a Gulu. And, uh, you know, so they're all on it, but it's a mother tongue. He says an emphasis in <inaudible> is on, you know, how to manufacture. They make tequila. I like tequila, but I don't like to call it illusion, body. I call it magic body. I think it's more polite.
Speaker 2 00:27:11 Right. Because you know, the Hindu is called Maya illusion only, but then Maya, no humor, Kent means a magician. Right. And then magic, it seems more polite to me, like put as mother was Maya Davie, right? This is illusion. You don't want to say this, oh, hello is the loser. But this is magic. That's kind of magical paper like that. I have such silly ideas, but that's really interesting. So I actually really like of chakra. I asked, you know, I, I really have a fondness for it. Um, and, um, you know, of course I learned a lot to grow as a manager and this and that. And I, and I love Demchak. I don't have such a strong feeling about him. I drive to
Speaker 3 00:28:07 Yes, yes. Have I tried, you know, like, uh, do I say, uh, when we do the Judith online, Judith, I mean to call them Joel <inaudible>. So we do all the five day 80 practice.
Speaker 2 00:28:20 Oh, great. Oh, yes. That's right. There's one for the, the, uh, what is it called? The Maya Maya. That's a big thing. I saw that in the book, you have a big focus on the Maya July, right?
Speaker 3 00:28:40 Well, you just simply focus on the, all the, uh, five day teas, you know, so we don't put any priority. We just put in practice. How would I say a hundred? Say the five day is all of them. Right. We accumulate all the mantras.
Speaker 2 00:28:56 That's great. That's really great. And, uh, and I, I literally, I don't have much, I don't know much about, you know, the myogelo th there seem to be several versions of the Maya Gianna tantra, because right. The Jamba Saenger, supposedly it comes outside, it comes from the Maya JAMA Tundra, supposedly. But then the version that you see in the, they translated some sort of Maya <inaudible> and his is his organization, but that's too short. It's tiny little thing. So there must be a long one, but I haven't, I haven't been researched that at all. So maybe I will next life.
Speaker 2 00:29:41 You're far more knowledgeable than me. Right. I really want to learn the Shanghai thing because that idea NIGO ma Shanghai. I liked that also, Nico doesn't use the tone joke, right? Among her knee NIGO. No, George Duke had six yogas of Negro. Mother's no tongue joke. There's Nila dream yoga, but no, um, no, um, body, body presents a yoga. So don't joke. You ever remember the story about Martha? Where the daiquiri knees told him he better not transmit the dome joke, which down <inaudible> <inaudible> oh, I forgot to kiss. So, so, uh, so Martha did any way to his son, remember again, he broke the rules of the dark money and then that caused trouble with the sun, right?
Speaker 3 00:30:43 Yes, yes. Right.
Speaker 2 00:30:46 And so, but Nico doesn't use the, her six yogas have a dream yoga and said, they call it dream yoga and they don't have the one that no, no, no, no. Don't
Speaker 3 00:31:04 Midland poet Pardot. <inaudible> right, right. Right. Five Juul, seven Tacoma also.
Speaker 2 00:31:15 So that's really great. And you did, did you do in the retreat or have you practiced the dog chanting, then you might take it role. Have you done that because you haven't tried to set one? No, no, no.
Speaker 3 00:31:29 It's only the, when it comes to the meditation, we only practice the, the mom will drive coming from the new GUMA and the shampoo masters throughout the day.
Speaker 2 00:31:37 Right. I like it. I don't like any kind of sectarian team, or I like to think that the top of the, you know, the <inaudible>, so the upper part of Rema has to be like to dog, chin, I feel has to be very connected, but I haven't discovered, I thought you might know, I have a hard time figuring out, right. When do you do this? So 10 thing where they do this, you know, they pointed out to the reality of the clear line, what, who receives the, that, uh, uh, identification of the clear light in the XOJET right. And all the Westerners loved it. Don't check this their favorite tape, but I have a problem in the sense that, what do you do about the body? In other words, if tantra has to do with accelerating the evolution of the body toward a Buddha body, right.
Speaker 2 00:32:45 Instead of bodies, billion lifetimes, one lifetime or three lifetime or shoe lifetime. So that's a huge acceleration of body. So where do they teach that? In the tone, the texture, the texture is really just pointing out the mind of clear light, right? So then the person is there with a mind and nobody, but then they do the non-drug. So then it must be the <inaudible> has to be filling in the gap with the body and bringing the body along the circle. Right. You have Choco and she'll go right along, judge. You cool. And, um, and, uh, so how do you cultivate that in the dog? And I'm thinking maybe the toe gal after the texture, then you do together and the target out businesses, developing some kind of subtle body, like a magic body practice. I'm hoping. I mean, I'm sure that must be the case. Don't you think so, but I don't know. I thought you might know, you don't know either. Okay. And in
Speaker 3 00:34:03 Practice, there's only one thing that is very, I mean, there's among many practice that is unique, but among the many practice, there's a one last stage of the <inaudible>. We call it a dibble, chimi, Truman <inaudible> we simply visualize to clear lights to bowl of radiant that is rotating slowly and then the synchronize in the speed and rotation. And then finally they become one and then there is a pure light. And then yeah. Then you meditate in that state. Yeah. So,
Speaker 2 00:34:40 But yes. So, so, uh, so, okay. So then, then when you look into your light and then that's it like in check chin a little bit like that, where you go straight to clear light, the whole universe has clear light, and then, then the five lights, five colored lights are working and you make a body out of that. You make the circle out of that. Right. Is that right? Something like that, something like that. Well, but then the Demchak they have like a Shanda, right? Six benches shut down. Right. Don't you, you do have, <inaudible> like five stages and <inaudible> chapter somewhere the stage. What
Speaker 3 00:35:38 Do you mean by like five stages? If you don't mind me?
Speaker 2 00:35:42 Um, Lewin. No, when <inaudible> and then you Lou and sell and then, so you sort of let sex, but because it sort of bridges over from also that's normal anyway. So, but then they also have that in the mother tend to, it seems like they more used like six branches, let's say yeah. Like six, six, which is a sort of diva. And then Sam, Dan, and then, uh, uh, uh <inaudible> and finally, you know, there's like six stages like that. I think there's really, they fit together somehow,
Speaker 3 00:36:31 So far. Aye. I so far as I remember, um, when we do the five day to practice, that's not so much of the visualization that we do because we emphasize everything into the new Goma practice. So we keep the check soundbar to practice little bit like, um, how do I say it as a primary data, but the visualization, we keep it very simple. So we don't do all the, you know, the detail of everything on a chakra, detailed visualization. So why don't we do is that we visualize and meditate over the course of six months of <inaudible>. So <inaudible> all of them, they're in the two arms, Tim's a figure of appearance. But do
Speaker 2 00:37:15 You suppose to get the sell down of the visualization though?
Speaker 3 00:37:19 Yeah. So like all the appearance of the date is like an example of someone <inaudible> you and <inaudible> all of them. We visualize in the two arms and that, you know, we just focused on the cynical Radian and then the appearance, we just repeat that again. And again, we just end our, how do I say six months of the retreat, almost somewhere around that. So we don't go anything close to what you're trying to, what
Speaker 2 00:37:45 You're well, immediate exceptional person can do it six months now an exceptional person can do it in six lifetimes. I'm sure you are more exceptional. Um, so I'm sorry. My wife should pick down. I can't answer. I couldn't do it. She doesn't pick up. Okay. So, um, I see a six months, that's a long time, you know, modern Americans. They won't do it in six hours. I possible, you know, and, um, <inaudible> the chapters on the kid, him development stage or creation. I like to call it creation stage, but other people use development stage. But in that the, he said in his own time in Tibet, that a lot of people didn't want to do much Kiran. They wanted to get to the dog as soon as possible. He makes quite an argument that you have to really do make her show him effort. But of course the <inaudible> Juul, like disciple will go very quickly and simple and quickly. Yeah, for sure. That's true.
Speaker 3 00:39:08 Yeah. But in our retreat, we don't get any special treatment, you know, just because I have a name of color and <inaudible>, I don't get any special treatment. We, we practice everything equally, everything
Speaker 2 00:39:19 Together. Yeah. I know you don't know as a tool, just as a name, the Toko, but did you like to type up, doesn't go by that. I mean, someone who, who automatically gets it, you know, like it, like from that two tin cap, they said he, he walked into the color track Ramonda in the lineage of chakra cap, I think said, Dean said setting BA or somewhere like that, he just walked into the color Tucker Mandela there, color particle Manzanar. And then he saw the wisdom, Mandela instantaneous because of special past lives, you know? And I don't think he was necessarily too cool, but he just had that affinity. You know what I mean? So I think that can happen. Right. And it did, did you have some mystical experience like that yourself when you were doing fine? You don't have to say, of course, if you don't want to
Speaker 3 00:40:25 One, there's the one mystical experience. Uh, there's other experience I had more intimate that is with the 600 macula. That is the other chapter that I would explain to you slowly. But there's the one moment that when I was in the meditation box, uh, that was the time I think it was around the third year where I say, I want to catch the dream. You know, that, uh, um, you know, there was a one woman that I, I had fallen asleep and then I awakened from the state of the dream. You know, there's a complete blackout after the, all the element that is dissolved and then there's a complete blackout and found the black state. And then there is a rising state of mind that you have a sense of awareness in the state of the dream. And in that very moment. And then I say to myself, I visualize in this very moment, chakra somebody, you, then I walk outside of my meditation box. And then I went to the courtyard of the retreat center. Then I looked around and I was looking at myself as the <inaudible> or the blue men.
Speaker 2 00:41:35 What's your pattern in your limbs and everything you felt like that I don't know, but I just,
Speaker 3 00:41:42 So then I said, okay, this is enough. So I go back now and then I went back then. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:41:49 Did you have any remembrance of things from a previous life or your previous color of humor and he came to America? Or did you remember anything like that? Or any people know
Speaker 3 00:42:02 It was many stories, but not that I, not that I remember and in this very moment. Right, right. Many stories when I was very young, there was a pictures and videos and things like that. But I remember currently, and so I don't want to repeat somebody else's story, you know,
Speaker 2 00:42:19 You know, <inaudible>, you know his name or does it pull up from <inaudible>? Yes. Yes. I've seen it personally. Yes. I loved it. I loved him when he was at the, um, I haven't seen him in a long time, but at one time where he was at the event arranged by <inaudible> to start the 84,000 project. He had a conference at beer and where he invited me. So I went there and then whenever she gave a talk and he said that when you were recognized as a tool, it's very upsetting. When you're a little kid, he said, because then somebody comes and tells you the way he put it was, he said, people come and tell you that you're somebody who you're not.
Speaker 2 00:43:09 And that's a little distressing. He said, he claimed instead, it was like, very upsetting. You think you're this little kid run around and then have people say, oh no, you're not him. You're with somebody else. Everybody laughed. You know? I mean, it was like a joke, but it was quite, quite sweet. I think he's very nice person. And I like him making a big fuss about it. He said. And, uh, D he, but you haven't been to the states. Where did you see him? Oh, he goes back to India and here and there, but then he travels in Europe as he also
Speaker 3 00:43:45 Does he travel? I don't know. I, I don't, I don't know so much about it. I seen him in some Facebook and some, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:43:53 Right, right, right. But he's very funny. I've always liked him a lot. I got along with him when the Karmapa, or until it came first time to America, he was arranging everything polar and the chair was arranging. So then he and a young Karmapa say, uh, he asked me to introduce him in some big hotel with hundreds of people and to make introduction of him, there's me in New York, Chinese, some big Chinese hotels. And, uh, and then the cadre of people live there. We're looking all annoyed. Oh, what is this person? They took of me. I never thought of myself as blooper. I don't even like the name like Gundam, but I like his Gundam bar. You know, my prayer condemned by. I never liked to Gail. Ooh, sounds so. Prisy, it's like a Protestant or something. I never liked it. I didn't, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 00:44:59 I like gun Denver. And anyway, but so, but anyway, they think I'm so, so they were like, some of them were looking really. He said, looking daggers, as we say, they were looking daggers, why is he making introductions? And, uh, she was enjoying that. He talked, that was a lot of fun, but he was fine. Fine. And he also, I had met him in Tibet. You know, when he was like five years old, I met him and I went with a group of people and some people in my group, I brought like 10, 15 people. And we went to church and we had an audience and they had brought a bunch of toys to give to him when he was little. And then the Chinese police were there and they wouldn't let him play with the toys and they wouldn't let him, the people couldn't hang out with him.
Speaker 2 00:45:54 Like, there's some women, you know, older women like mother figures, or think they wouldn't let them spend time together. And he looked quite upset about, even then, I noticed that when he was there and he did look a bit, it was a bit like prisoner. Then I liked his dad. Did you ever meet his dad? No. But his dad showed up. Then, then we were put in some place to have our lunch. We had packed lunch. We were having lunch in some guests room, but without him, the rabbit Shay was allowed to go with us. But then his father came in and his father, his father had a big, giant dollar Lama button. Okay. And it's wearing on his chest, you know, come by.
Speaker 2 00:46:38 I was almost scared. I thought we all get arrested. And then I said, oh, he said, hello. He was very friendly. He said, I want to go to India. I said, so we said, okay. It was great. I hope you blow. You know what I mean? We couldn't take it. He didn't want to go with us. But I mean, he was just saying he was going to go to India. And then I asked him, I said, <inaudible> definitely on his shit to loud voice. I was like, so scared. But that was, they weren't at that time. That was the nineties, I think. Right. So they were, uh, the Chinese were not being so aggressive at that minute, but anyway, we didn't get arrested, but I don't know where they are now. His, his parents, but I hope they're okay. After escaped, I asked him, he said they were in calm and it was okay. Yeah. But I met him after he escaped. Right. In new years time, I asked him what happened to your mom and dad. Okay. I hope they're okay. Some places. So, yeah. They're often come here. I think he didn't, he didn't, he purposely didn't want them nearby when he escaped, so they couldn't be blamed.
Speaker 2 00:47:54 And I liked him. He's really nice. I like, I think you guys are a whole new generation and you're going to make a new kind of way of doing it. I hope so. I think so. It's really great. I heard that he, that he doesn't like people doing too much back T I heard that someone told him, you know, when some people like crawl on the floor, you know, he doesn't like it. Yeah. I think that's really good. I'm very happy about it. So. Okay. Well, you know, do, by the way, do you have an assistant who schedules things and that works for you or secretary?
Speaker 3 00:48:39 Not really. Uh, not really. That is with me, like the traditional world, you know, like an example, traditional will, we had this idea of challenger and Tony and all these things. I don't like that idea. I like to engage with the people who I appointed to who really one week to week, you know, what is actually happening on the ground. You know, there's less politics on power, basically.
Speaker 2 00:49:07 I know. I know. But when you, if you start traveling a little bit, it's helpful to have someone who helps you.
Speaker 3 00:49:12 Yes, yes. At that time we know it's just one of the Dharma center. So, or one of the DAMA center Lamas in America, they just come over and then they will assist, you
Speaker 2 00:49:22 Know, helped me during that journey
Speaker 3 00:49:24 Or before the journey, they handle things.
Speaker 2 00:49:27 Oh, good. So anyway, whenever that happens, please keep us in touch. You know, it really, really, I'm dying to have you come and spend some time with us. September in September, I have a new, a new, um, course of larger yoga, but it starts again with take men reading the gender. They were shocked with so far. I like it a lot. It's really fun because it says that Nirvana is right in the Samsara, it's all sorts of hints of non-dualism. There's so many hints in that when you look at it from my own point of view or point of view, even you see so many hints in the tech men, but they, the tech men are just still thinking, they're going to leave, leave, leave the planet, you know, no Nirvana somewhere else. You know, it's still clearly saying no way, no way he does many hints.
Speaker 2 00:50:33 Let's say don't get some of that there. So I insist that bugger yoga starts there. Then I put my high on a second that's in December. So I have, I have a short retreat, um, take men and then I'll take 10. And then next spring or something is, uh, again, tantra. But you know, you could come at any time. Doesn't matter if you were here in September, you know, you could come and talk. It's a good group of like a hundred and some yoga. They're really trying to do some serious practice. And I, I'm not able to help them completely because I refused to be good. I'm not, I'm a gateway Shinya friends, you know, then they have to go get initiation from Goodwill. So I have another question for you going, you think about the <inaudible> business. I have no idea about it.
Speaker 3 00:51:36 I only read, you know, I read some teachings or previous, and I just tried to be content with that. And he said, in order to recognize, the nature of the mind is in a desert only few now three sentence. He said, you know, my aim megaohms. I mean, you know, so mine is no distraction. <inaudible> non-meditation. And then, and then the third one is non altering. You know, my inbox Simba, my, what am I saying about my English? My English, my English is my gums go. My jobs was <inaudible> mine. <inaudible> <inaudible>.
Speaker 2 00:52:30 Yes, yes. But I, you know, in philosophically, you know, uh, in philosophical side, I have a problem with the Shantel, but I also like to do like, uh <inaudible> he passed away before you born, but you know who he was famous soccer teacher in Seattle, he was many years living in America and someone asked him what he think about. And he said, <inaudible> I like that. I do. And, uh, so you know, the, the feeling that they get, I don't mind, and I kind of like, it's nice. The idea that, especially in relation to Kala chakra, visionary, you know, I think the do-over had wonderful visionary experience with the commons chakra, where he felt that, uh, the Mandela, the body of come charter came straight out of clear light, Shen Tong so that he tried to fit that in, in, uh, philosophically as a Chandon theory. And, uh, but, but, but I liked the visionary part, but I think in the exoteric kid, the rational theory to reasoning, it doesn't work too well, the idea that the absolute or the, you know, don't, don't never can't have qualities, you know, do much do much yet.
Speaker 2 00:54:03 That means if there's nothing, it doesn't, it doesn't possess properties. Properties are in the relational, relational level, Tanya, Tanya, Tanya, Tanya Denver. Right. So, so, and, and the sort of rational side it does, it's difficult. So I feel I would debate a debate, my Jordan friends about that, but on the contrast side, on the visionary side, I accept like it very much. And I feel that, uh, you know, like call chakra very much. I don't know if you know that, but a render on was his soccer per teacher and random, I didn't like Harlan chakra. He freaked out about what is the downsell, John? So what does that mean has no soap and he was freaking out about it. So, but talk about defended it because he liked the visionary team. So it's a visionary, you know, there's all this inexpressible, you know, it's like, no, you can't, you have to hold two opposite things in mind that this kind of idea, you know, that's fine of that level. But when you're thinking critically, you know, like Tamar and it can't work very well, it's a little, you have to really stretch it, really stretch it to make it work, you know, because they've done that whole point and done the bias is do much. <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:55:36 do much. So, so that's my attitude about it. But I, I bought a, I wanna not be, you know, too critical.
Speaker 1 00:56:06 The Bob Thurman podcast is brought to you in part through the generous support of the Tibet house, us Menlo membership, community, and listeners like you, and is distributed here at creative commons, new license, please feel free to share like, and post on your favorite social media, plat <inaudible> Tashi today. And thanks for tuning in.
