Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:14 Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful and some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house has the Dalai Lama control center in America, all best wishes. Have a great day. This is episode 269. A conversation with Tenzing may talk,
Speaker 1 00:01:13 Uh, medicine, Buddha podcast. Okay. Uh, welcome everyone. Happy to see you all. And I'm very happy today to greet, uh, Tenzin Metro LA, uh, who lives in London as a mother of three is a Tibetan exile person of great distinction, uh, is a banking professional, but has, but most important has founded the first Tibetan medicine app where using that, uh, and website, you can consult the Tibetan doctor. You can order Tibetan, herbal medical supplements, and you can be in touch with, uh, the, uh, medicine Buddha's own medicine tradition as mediated by the wonderful Tibetans physicians. And I love it because I, um, well, I I'll tell you a minute, then second I'm introducing, uh, Michael Burbank, who is a, uh, one of the executive directors of men law retreat and spar resort, uh, of the healing day was far in the Catskill mountains of America and Phoenicia who introduced me to the medicine for the app and who is working out with Tenzin metal law affiliation, where clients at the medicine's center threatened healing center in the Catskills can access to read medical doctors.
Speaker 1 00:02:49 I think all over the world tend to miss a lot. Actually you'll tell us more about it through the Tibet minutes, an app. And we were very, very supportive of it. And I just want to say before I, to them, I did study it to admit us and myself, uh, 60 years ago almost. And, um, in 19 64 65, and subsequent to that, I translated for the dilemmas personal physician and one of the most famous Tibetan physicians who passed away recently, although he had received from the Indian government, the Padma Shri honor award because he healed and served so many Tibet Indian citizens, as well as of course, Tibetans. And also people internationally would go to Dharamsala to, uh, to be diagnosed and to be treated by him. So he was really quite remarkable, remarkable man, and a great teacher. And I, I loved him a lot and we just lost him.
Speaker 1 00:03:47 Okay. I just want to say that. And therefore, for me to discover that the Davidians themselves have gotten together and created an app for those in the west, who are used to serve translating for traveling doctors in a sort of informal kind of like haphazard way can now be served in a more formal, technically legal, uh, and well-informed and multiplicity of doctor's way. It's marvelous. And I congratulate you. And so I'm inviting you on the podcast to tell us more about it. So there you go, tens of mental law, how did you get around to doing this and, uh, w how, who is your team and how, how is it going? You know, so the whole, the whole story,
Speaker 2 00:04:32 I thank you for the opportunity, Rob and Michael, really excited to partner with men. So that's a screen on the medicine where the app, which we can discuss more later, but Paul idea for the medicine with the app actually, um, came about quite naturally. Um, there's the story is it's a very personal story. Um, upon the birth of my third child, my mother-in-law offered to look after them and anyone who's been a parent knows the dreaded, um, night feed is the most difficult where the baby wakes up every two hours. Um, so I, I had said to my mother-in-law that I would look after the baby as I'm the mother and she, that she has him and she doesn't sleep anyway with that, um, uh, confession I probed, and I asked her more about her insomnia and she, and she was comfortable enough to share with me that she'd already tried Western medicine.
Speaker 2 00:05:32 And in England with the national health service, you only get limited consultations with doctors about a 20 minute session. They, um, a lot of conventional medicine is symptomatic and prescribed pill or which to, to, to alleviate the symptoms, but not the root cause. Um, she already tried Chinese medicine. She tried other alternative, such as supplements. So I asked her she was Tibetan medicine because of Tibetan medicines, um, focus on mental wellness and specializing in insomnia. And she was really open. He told me that, um, we think that number one side of Somalia and region who are not aware of Tibetan medicine, but could really benefit from Tibetan medicine, sorry, Justin, Michael and Bob, I just realized at this time the light just hit my face and does so much, um, shadow. Would it be okay if I just reposition and see that?
Speaker 1 00:06:36 No, we've here. We can edit this out when you're closer. There's certain angles where it's good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's better. Yes, definitely. Okay. So
Speaker 2 00:06:52 Yes. Okay, please. So the idea for the medicine or the app came about quite naturally, um, in January, 2019, um, and the birth of my third baby, uh, my mother-in-law offered to look up during night feed, um, and all of us as parents, Bob, you have four children, you know, how dreaded the night feed is where the wake up every two hours, um, for need or a nappy change. Um, so I had said to her, um, you know, I was such a generous offer. I would look after the baby, um, because I'm the mother. And she said, um, mental, I suffer from insomnia. I don't sleep anyway. Um, and I probed an Austin more about her insomnia and she revealed that she had already tried a Western conventional medicine. And here in England with the national health and health service, where you get a very brief consultation with a medical doctor, she didn't feel that the doctor had, um, you know, asked about, uh, her lifestyle or underlying condition.
Speaker 2 00:07:54 Um, it was very symptomatic that, you know, and she didn't feel that was adequate. And she was being failed with conventional medicine. She tried Chinese traditional Chinese medicine. She said that didn't help. She tried even supplements and shouldn't help. So I asked her if she would consider Tibetan medicine and she was very open to it. Um, having had a chronic insomnia problem. So immediately that made me realize there's a whole group of people outside the Himalayan region who are not even aware of Tibetan medicine, but are really open to Tibetans medicine. Um, so then I, uh, I tried to find a Tibetan medicine doctor who was one, an actual qualified Tibetan medicine doctor, two, that they could speak English or communicate clearly. And thirdly, who had availability to get on a video call with my mother-in-law and me. So this took so so much time and effort.
Speaker 2 00:08:50 And I thought to myself, um, there must be an efficient way where everyone who to have access to a Tibetan medicine doctor can do it in a convenient, um, and confidential way. Um, so finally we were able to, um, connect with a Tibetan medicine doctor in India. Um, and then we stumbled upon the second part of our struggle, which is actually getting the supplements that she prescribed and couldn't get the supplements from India because, um, one the current Tibetan medical Institute, they have an email address that you email your medicines to. They get back after a few days and they write to you and say, no, you need an in-person consultation. Even though we had explained that we did a video consultation and we had the recommended medicine, um, and also even if they did send it, um, usually Herb's are stopped at customs or damage. There's always delays. So finally able to get the Herb's with much difficulty from another Tibetan medicine doctor in, in England. And I just thought throughout this whole process, surely somebody could put this all together and integrated into an app. Wonderful.
Speaker 1 00:10:02 Yes. And you did that and how did you put it together? Who did you, uh, who did you find to really help, who was most helpful in getting it together?
Speaker 2 00:10:12 Uh, it wasn't a straight journey getting it together. Uh, it just started with an idea at first. Um, I pitched the idea at an entrepreneurial competition called the Tibet innovation prize in Dharamsala. Um, the prize was, um, set up by his holiness, um, and his team, Canada Tibet team, um, to distribute the profits off his holiness, his store, and he wanted to give it to, to be an entrepreneur. Um, I pitched the idea at the competition. I was a finalist. Um, I didn't win, but I came away thinking I feel this happen. Um, so I quit my job. I got, um, my shit in the bank that I'd been working for. I put into a business account, set up the company. Um, at that point I had, I had no idea how to make an app, but I just, I just felt something in me that said, um, I can, and I will.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 Um, and the journey to making the app has been quite torturous to be honest, um, uh, along the way, um, I approached an Indian company that makes apps and I actually got scammed. And the money that I had paid as a di realized it was a scam company. There's no consumer protection in India had to start from scratch. Um, go back to the drawing room, stopped with the design of the app, what I wanted it to be, what I wanted, the purpose of the app, what I wanted the screen to look like. And then I reached out and I found a developer who could actually put that in T it was just fruitions of this app, uh, recurrently on app 54. So it's been a long year and a half to get here from idea stage. So it
Speaker 1 00:12:04 Takes a lot. What did you then in the process ended up studying to lead medicine, to some extent yourself, so you can explain it and you sort of have a sense of what it, what it's all about.
Speaker 2 00:12:18 I, I, um, I I've S I've seen actually first hand the benefit of Tibetan medicine within my own family. Um, so my mother suffered blood pressure and has been taking Tibetan medicine. And in line with that, she's got lifestyle advice. Um, she's been taking better care of herself, you know, as part of self care and now doesn't suffer from it. So I've seen firsthand the benefits of Tibet.
Speaker 1 00:12:43 And did you, um, did your mother-in-law get to sleep better?
Speaker 2 00:12:47 She got to sleep better, but I have to admit her insomnia hasn't gone away completely, but she has longer periods of sleep. And she also I've had other customers come up to me and say, you know, with the lifestyle advice, they know what to eat, what not to eat. Um, and also one of them said that she, for the first time in her life, she got a sleep routine set up because of the Tibetan medicine doctor. So I've seen that anyone who has a consultation with Tibetan medicine is benefit is also encouraging me to learn more about Tibetan medicine, about how there's the mind-body connection, um, benefits, a lot of natural, um, remedies and all this ancient healing that really, um, applies to modern day modern day issues. You know, we've got, um, arthritis from sitting in desks and not moving much. We've got, um, eczema and allergies.
Speaker 2 00:13:42 Two of my children, um, suffer the modern, um, hashtag first world problems from, you know, our gut bacteria. Um, and actually my, my son, um, suffered eczema. So, uh, seriously, um, that I did concern Tibetan medicine doctor who did the lifestyle review. And she said to me, um, you should avoid catch up and citrus foods. And later I spoke to a dermatologist, a pediatric dermatologist in the Western medical, no, those are high acid foods. So actually a lot of this ancient wisdom really aligns with a lot of the conventional medicine integrative. And I've been talking more about it, but a lot Tibetan medicine, these are the, a lot of the modern conditions.
Speaker 1 00:14:28 Oh, wonderful. Yeah. That's I agree with you very much. When I was studying to Tibet medicine in Dharamsala, there was a Swiss doctor who was at the daycare. Uh, you know, there was, I think they key taking main car, you know, the Western, uh, hospital in Dharamsala especially set up for the Tibetans and he would routinely for arthritis and certain types of things prescribed Tibetan medicine, because he'd been there a while in this early sixties. And he realized certain conditions. So when they don't have a certain medicine, they just have some painkillers and palliative things, but they don't have anything to heal the underlying condition. So he would, it was part of his medical practice as a Western MD, you know, uh, trained and licensed in Europe. And otherwise there are other things he did do of course, Western conventional things. So it's really it's and Tibetan medicine has a theory that makes it very compatible with Western medicine.
Speaker 1 00:15:23 If, if the Tibetan physician is creative, you know, like my teacher darker, you should done. Then, uh, the later she doesn't, then he got in trouble in Tibet. It's young, young graduate in that he went to the British consulate or embassy in Lhasa before the Chinese arrived. And he, uh, he, he learned from them immunization techniques and he went out and he did injections of people to stop small pox things and other things. And some of them were Orthodox Tibetan physicians individually. They were all, they were very disapproving cause it wasn't in their system, but actually it fits very well. And he was able to go ahead, he wasn't punished or anything because he was able to present it as fitting within the theory of Tibet medicine. Now, if only the conventional doctors were that open-minded, it would be, we would improve medical health everywhere in India.
Speaker 1 00:16:22 They do have legal health practice of Tibet medicine. They have an Arabic medicine, they have a Greek medicine, then they have modern conventional medicine, all sort of interwoven. But, uh, but, and they are working themselves on seeing the popularity of complimentary medicine in the west. Uh, the Indian minister of health. Actually, I met him once at a conference and she said they, they were not as well integrated as they should be, but they were, they were learning and doing it. So I think your app is truly pioneering. And, uh, I would think that some enlightened Western MDs would, uh, it's, it should more know about it. I don't know if you have used subscribed any or enrolled in, in particular where certain MDs, which was, think of it as, as an option in some cases, have you managed them?
Speaker 2 00:17:10 Uh, so our app on our app, you can connect with vetted English, speaking, professional, Tibetan medicine, doctors. We don't have any conventional doctors, but we, interestingly we have a lot of conventional doctors who are recommending the app. Um, yeah, yes, yes. To recommend, to recommend. Yeah, that's really
Speaker 1 00:17:35 Good. That would be like the Swiss doctor in the sixties who did that routinely in the community there with Indian patients or Western patients, or there weren't so many in the sixties, but, but, uh, uh, he would do that. And then that should, that could become a huge thing if it's, there are these kinds of doctors in America called functional medicine doctors who realize the value of lifestyle advice, and karmic advice, ethical advice as relating to, you know, psychosomatically to the, to the physical condition. And they are very receptive to, I know a lot of them who are very, very receptive to Tibet medicine. And, um, I think, I guess that's our job. We should help you, Mike. We could pitch to like mark Hyman and other people like that. They know about the app and teach them about the app and so on, you know, or you can start by teaching me about it, but I don't have medical patients in that sense.
Speaker 1 00:18:35 So I'm not important as them, but I think it's really great. Tensilon and how do you see the future of the app? Is it, are you seeing metrics you're a banking professional, and so you must be keeping metrics, you know, you have a measurement of growth and all this sort of thing, and it's a company, but it's not a public company, right. It's a private company, all your shareholders and all your workers are Tibetans, right. So it's very Tibetan, um, oriented, which is wonderful. It's really, really good, I think. And um, so, uh, how, what is the, how is the growth happening and now that it's been, how long has it been going and what is the, what's the trajectory, you know, that the graph, you know,
Speaker 2 00:19:17 Um, so just going back on the point about, um, Western conventional doctors recommending the app, um, we, we are seeing this, um, especially with the pandemic people going towards wellness, um, people, disabled people looking for holistic advice, lifestyle review, people seeing as complimentary. I know one in 10 people, uh, access traditional only going to increase in recognition of Tibetan medicine. Um, and it's so successful that Menzie Kung the Tibetan medical Institute has 50 branches, um, all across India. And, you know, they're even struggling to meet for, um, for the, yeah, it's so popular in India because already they come from, they're already, you know, familiar with traditional, um, herbal natural medicine in the west. It's growing in popularity. And I think, you know, if you look at the last 10 years, uh, acupuncture, reflexology is now so accepted. And that's what my mission is that Tibetan medicine actually is seen as one of the remedies, one of the, um, uh, options for people with chronic conditions, that that is my grand vision, um, to bring this ancient wisdom, um, forward and in a way also promote Tibetan culture with excellence.
Speaker 2 00:20:40 That's why I have a Tibetan or Tibetan team. All the people on our app are Tibetan practitioners and they are really driven to help others. We do have international advisors. Um, we're not Tibetan because we want to leverage from global knowledge, mobile skills, um, are all to purpose driven as well. They, they understand the vision of the medicine or the app and understand about promoting Tibetan culture with excellence. Um, I think there's so much growth out there and we want to start, um, organically with helping one person each time and ensuring that that customer service for that one individual, um, is excellent. Um, and that they organically to, um, recommend it, um, because they benefited from it. Um, so the statistics so far, um, I've noticed, um, um, on a anonymized data basis, um, a lot of people are coming with a lot of mental wellness issues in addition to another condition. And that's because, you know, um, in the west we do spend it's, we are under lots of stressful jobs and pressures. Um, I, you know, my day job is a banker. I work with very, um, alpha individuals, um, who expect a lot. Are you
Speaker 1 00:21:58 Going to banking again? I mean, are you back in the day job? You mean, you said you had left it, you're not going back up as a consultant or something
Speaker 2 00:22:08 At the beginning, at the beginning of my journey, um, after I had pitched at the Tibet innovation prize, I met this, um, I had a very emotional moving experience meeting him.
Speaker 1 00:22:22 That was great. Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 00:22:25 Uh, sometimes I actually quite struggled into words how much there was so many different aspects. Um, so, um, I had this really lucky opportunity to meet his holiness. You know, he, he opens up his visit visiting, um, twice a week and only about 200 people get to meet him at eight o'clock in the morning. I went there with my three children, were baby strapped on my baby carrier. Um, and I remember there was this one moment that really touched me in that, um, you meet his holiness and he speaks a few words to you. I was crying throughout the whole experience because you could just feel his energy. And he means so much to me as a Tibetan. And he is such a great ambassador for Tibet, and he's opened all these doors for every Tibetan and I'm always cognizant of that. Um, and that really drives me to be the best Yvette and I can be because he's done that for all of us Tibetans.
Speaker 2 00:23:22 And I remember at this point where after you have, uh, uh, a little, um, opportunity to greet him, they say group picture. And I remember at that moment, a group of lot 22 buttons pushed and shoved to take a picture with his holiness. And I was so shocked by that experience because it seemed like such grasping nature compared to, you know, how peaceful and calm everyone of them. And after the experience, I had a chance to read it with my husband and he said, um, we are just as bad or taking, taking, taken away from his holiness. And I realized then that, you know, I also bothered him as one of 200 people waking him up at eight o'clock in the morning. He's 85 years old, and we've done that. And we are always doing that from this holiness. You know, everyone's using a picture of his holiness using a coat from his holiness, inviting him to talk.
Speaker 2 00:24:20 And I felt actually Tibetans. We all have the opportunity represent Tibet and the best Tibetans and we should because his holiness already opened the door. We should then leverage that and put that in concert with excellence, not shift in me. Um, I also felt, um, you know, having had this idea of the app, um, one of my advisors said, um, method, now that you've pitched this idea of the app, you released the idea of the person that steals your idea is not going to be a Tibetan, but it's going to be a Tibet. It's going to be somebody who went to Harvard business school. So I felt, um, you know, um, maybe there's a reason why I had this idea and I had the means and opportunity at the time to quit my job, um, to start it without relying on, on somebody else. And, um, and you know, we live in such a empowered, uh, world.
Speaker 2 00:25:27 Um, you can collaborate with individuals who can design the screens, make the app. So I felt, you know, to 100% commit myself to making the best app I can. Um, so I did that in December, 2019 before the pandemic, the pandemic has been excellent in that it's helped, um, make people more receptive to tell him yes, and using that as to the safest, most convenient and confidential way to access to that doctors themselves who have been wanting for the app to be built fast, do the consultations online and maintain the livelihoods. Um, and in August, 2020, we approved on the app store and Google play store. And then I released it on 21st of January, 2021, I'm on medicine for the day. And now in, um, August, 2021, we need to be partnering with mainland Tibet house on the sponsor doctor screen.
Speaker 3 00:26:27 I have a few questions about the app. Um, so you're, it's not just Tibet and doctors. So you're, you know, you're referring to mental health. You also help people connect with psychologists and yoga teachers and even, uh, monks. So could you speak a little bit about those?
Speaker 2 00:26:48 So when you, um, launch the app, you can, there, you can seek a consultation either with Tibetan medicine doctor or with a wellness practitioner. They have two different tabs. And what, when you press the tab, uh, you get a screen with all the doctors available. You can look up their profile, you can see their name, you can see what they specialize in, how many years of clinical this, um, and their rate and availability and the same with the wellness practitioners. We've got, uh, three Tibetans psychotherapists, and these are, um, psychotherapists.
Speaker 1 00:27:23 Wow, great. Where did they practice in the states or in Europe or in India?
Speaker 2 00:27:30 So majority of all our wellness practitioners and Tibetan medicine doctors in India and Nepal, and that's why we're able to offer very affordable rates because that revenue, uh, in us dollars, um, you're helps maintain the livelihood in the, in the east. Also do have a few Tibetan doctors who are practicing, uh, here in Europe,
Speaker 1 00:27:54 Rhonda on the phone. But, you know, I have one thing to add here too. It makes it really auspicious and make, it gives me a greater enthusiasm for it. And I think you don't have to fear too much about Harvard business school people. I think you have there, you really have the advance on this and they could anyone who would, it would be a bad graduate of Harvard. They would flunk out of Harvard business school if they just tried to rip it away from the Tibetans, because it is a natural thing for the dependents to do. And I want to just tell you a little bit of a story, which is that in Tibet house, us, which I co founded in the 1980s, his oldest actually asked me to do it in 1979 when he first came to America, because you knew I had studied medicine with his physician and so on.
Speaker 1 00:28:45 And he asked me to, uh, and he knew I was very, very interested in it from the Tibetan culture, as well as being Buddhist studies person. And, uh, uh, but I couldn't really get much done until Richard here, Jordan. And then from 1986 and seven, we started and we ended with the Euro Tibet in the 19 91 92, which was a huge thing, working with the cultural office in Dharamsala. And we had 700 events in 35 countries that we did, you know, anybody. I mean, they were like dog shows of Lhasa apsos, you know, and, and art shows in libraries and also big ones and museums, uh, with the backbone where certain shows in museum and, um, I'm threatened, aren't, you know, sacred art, Tongans and sculptures and so on. And, uh, and, uh, and during that period, I was like the content person, you know, like professor younger professor and Richard, and some other people were like handling the practical business side, the financial side.
Speaker 1 00:29:46 Right. So then, uh, after that, Richard originally, when he came to help, as long as this request in 1987, uh, he told me all only we able to work for two years because I have a career a and B uh, I also like to do, I'm more of a political activist than a cultural person, you know, so I I'll get it all done. And he was very optimistic. He didn't know the complexities of Tibet because you dealing with a giant China who wants to fight anything anywhere in the world, not just into the head itself. And, uh, he didn't know that. So he thought he'd have it all set up in two years, like a big organization, lots of money, blah, blah, blah, big building. And of course in five years we did all those events, but we had nothing going, no money, even in debt.
Speaker 1 00:30:34 And then, and also he wanted to get back to his first interest and certain competitive Tibetans that I won't mention, but they, they, they jumped in and they said back to politics, let's go with, let's save Tibet, politically let's lobby. Let's go here and go there. So then he kind of left. He abandoned ship the cultural ship. So I was just shocked because when his holiness came in or a no curation in 87, he said, I'm good rate. You're making a two bed house. I don't really need it right now. He's so honest. He's honest and straightforward. He said, because <inaudible> is the Tibet house of the universe. And I am, you know, the exiles and I'm operating it there and we're getting it done. We're doing the job. But in 30 years from now, or 35 years from now, I will really need a strong Tibet house.
Speaker 1 00:31:25 Other ones too, around the world, like England here, everywhere. I hit in America and so on. But we were the second big one after, after, or aspired to be big after deli, you know? And so, um, uh, and then, um, so then I went to see him in Dara doing at an event there at the wonderful songs in Campbell library, that dedication I happened to be able to get there. And I said, you're holding us. These guys are saying we finished a bed houses, cultural work, but the year of Tibet, now they're going to go save the two bed politically. And I said, I'm glad you're going to save the world politically, but should we just, did I drop out too? I mean, should we just leave Tibet house? We bought it. We had helped to at fun, uh, buy a building. It's a big office in New York viability.
Speaker 1 00:32:13 We had helped very much. Our president of the time had done that. And he said, hell, no, you're just getting started. He said, you can't quit now. Okay. Those guys went where you take over. He said, I hadn't done sort of the sort of management. I'm not a banking professional. I'm just that professor at Penn and law professor. And I, I didn't, and I was very nervous about it. And I, I was really upset. How could I do that? I'm not rich. I'm not a celebrity and I'm not famous. I'm just a professor or you're going to do it. It'll be fine. You'll do it. And he says, oh, okay, great. So that night I'm feeling very nervous and I fall asleep and I had this dream and in the dream, all these things came together. His whole head nor the fact that I had been forced to study Tibetan medicine by my old Mongolian, original Zoe, uh, geisha, you know, my first Keisha and that, and then I had an interview with his holiness in America, in 81 where he said, I, where I pressed him.
Speaker 1 00:33:15 And I said, what would be the national industry of Tibet economically in a new world where you're interactive, if Tibet would become free again, which we were all working and hoping it will. And those days there was no question about middle way or free or whatever. You know, this is 1981. It was just whatever, you know, it's gotta be free. And, uh, he wouldn't on the answer right away. And then I press the press finally said, okay, what I want it to be like Switzerland in Asia and our national industry. You can't say that Buddha Dharma teaching as an industry because it's free. It's a Dharma, but medicine is, it couldn't be an industry. We have a great herbal production. We have the skilled doctors, we have a healthy environment. People can be there, it's high altitude, but for short time, at least it can be very healthy with good air.
Speaker 1 00:34:03 And so on. We have hot Springs, you know, he was going on about that. So I remember that in the dream, I remembered my studies of Tibetan medicine, and I saw Tibetan medicine, men law, sort of, we didn't have Medline that time, you know, but, but I saw men laws arising around the world. Like, why, wait, why wait for Tibet to be free? Let's let Tibet medicine get to be known around the world because there are some problems with modern medicine, frankly. I mean, there were some great things and there were some problems and the complimentary things have meat. They meet each other well, you know, and, um, and I felt so much and I just saw it all fit together. And basically the sort of bottom line, like the, the, the voice of the, of the day it is world when Tibetan medicine is famous in world culture, as a compliment to all the other kinds of medicine, and also reinforce your older herbal medicines, even in England and the natural, natural apathy people, and just kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:35:09 That's when Tibetans were realized by learning and maintaining their own culture, they can have good livelihood, whether an exile or at home. And then when they go at home, they can have beautiful spas and sanatoriums eventually sooner or later, China were realized they can never colonize the high altitude thing. They can never, they shouldn't crush the vegan culture because it's the Juul of a, of a kind of loose Federation, like the Russian Federation after Soviet union collapsed as impractical. Then you had the different Russian Federation nations, and they allowed the culture of the Mongolian Buddhists and different people, you know, Kazaks and things like in, in, in Russia, although they still have a little KGB control, but still they did. And so I saw that and then I became more hopeful and I gave up. So, so that's why we do have men long, because then I started asking donors.
Speaker 1 00:36:04 I said, well, thank you for your contribution. We're trying to have art shows. We're trying to introduce the topic, the cultural thing. And, but, uh, on the other hand, uh, we really need to show the value and the Tibetan wisdom where the rubber meets the road, where it affects people's health. Now that you know, has meditation almost as a mental health thing, wellness more generally. And we can't of course compete with, it's not legal in the United States or in most of European countries. So we don't compete with, uh, with the ordinary medicine, but we are, we show alternatives and then most important to bins themselves learn the value of this, you know, and it becomes as popular worldwide as it is in India, where it competes very effectively with our beta and so on. And look at 50 clinics that you mentioned, you know, of the two head medical Institute and, and, and livelihood wise, you know, uh, some don't remember shave intervals, seminar.
Speaker 1 00:37:00 I mean, she once told me that a medical Institute had more money than that hit at that time. And he wanted to borrow it and they wouldn't let him, and he was complaining about it because of course they have all those, a dollar lumber. They are so grumble that is orders them to keep prices very low and also give it out free even to very poor Indians who need it. And therefore it's very popular in India because of the modest prices. And they complain they would like to have higher prices, but they can't. So you don't have yet anyway. So it's really what you are doing is meeting my dream in a wonderful way where you really, you have the potential, if you can, if you can sustain it. And I know it must be very, very difficult job. One, which is highly underpaid of tens of Metro law is mother of three children and a husband job.
Speaker 1 00:38:03 Two is some consulting for banking and jobs. Three, it's going to be the lower income level of this because you're voluntarily developing it using Tibetan patriotic voluntary, but it's so important. And I think eventually it could be your whole livelihood very well if it's successful, if you, if you can sustain it. And I think it will be, and we will do all we can to help you. Absolutely. Because it totally meets our dream. You know, I would like to see a men law. I don't have to own it. I don't want to have done it. I want somebody else in Hawaii in the Colorado mountains, you should have done that. Had a dream of cultivating, a lot of Tibetan herbs in the Rocky mountains, in the U S know, Canadian and American Rocky Mount high altitude, you know, not as high as Himalaya, but still pretty high. Some of it,
Speaker 2 00:38:51 And it probably in a sustainable way because yes.
Speaker 1 00:38:56 And so there should be, and your app can link it all up in a good way and make people understand that. And then, you know what, for example, I, you mentioned about how they had to have personal things and this and that. And they are very notoriously difficult to work with, you know, even the prime minister or the government ex borrow, borrow money from them was rupees. And he was laughing about it actually, because he knows, he knows they just want to make sure it stays secure, you know, and they're afraid of Harvard business school robbing them. Actually, I have some other stories to tell you in other things and they, and they are very cautious and that's good that they are, however, uh, we, we've got to make it global and you're doing that. And eventually you should have a branch. You should connect in a Japanese language and even in Chinese language and, uh, for free Chinese in Taipei, Taiwan, and Hong Kong and so on, you know, and Singapore,
Speaker 2 00:39:54 And we just because our practitioners speak different languages and on the app and the profile, you can see the languages, they speak English.
Speaker 1 00:40:01 Is it kind of lingua franca area? Well, you're, you're British now.
Speaker 2 00:40:11 Every time me and my children see that they are Tibetan, but then doctors speak a multitude of languages and it's listed so that we don't have to translate and people can also choose the doctor in the language that they're most comfortable with. Um, thank you, Bob, for sharing. Um, you know, it doesn't, it feels karmic does that, what you pulled off and what I thought. And actually we met 18 years ago when I was a student in America, and I feel, I feel very, very karmic and I have to also share that, um, the day that I quit my job in banking, um, my, my manager wouldn't accept my resignation and two weeks accepted it. And the day that he accepted, I got an email saying you're one of 10,000 bankers to have access to an app on meditation. And when I listened to the app, I saw that it was cultural appropriation of Tibetan meditation.
Speaker 2 00:41:08 And I looked up the company and on Forbes magazine, they had said the best thing about our app is that we pay no royalty fee. And I jumped on Paul because I was one of the 10,000 who had access to that. Um, Paul and I asked him, and I said, do you employ any Tibetans? Because my first take this content and this knowledge and ancient learning from Tibetan, surely they must have Tibetans to ensure it's authentic and show it sustainable. And also to give back to the tradition and the culture of Tibetans, we don't think so short term, it's actually centuries of knowledge. We leverage lessons. And I told them I jumped on that call and I introduced myself and I said, touch delay. Um, my name is <inaudible>. I'm calling from the headquarters in Canada Wolf in London. Um, you know, in the age of, you know, um, sustainability and, uh, cultural sensitivity pointed to the ends, and they just stumbled on the call and said, we don't employ any Tibetans.
Speaker 2 00:42:12 And I just felt so karmic that as a Tibetan, I should make an app that is really authentic. And that really empowers my community to make an EG. Because when you do an consultation with my app, the money directly goes to Tibetan medicine doctor, and they should in their culture and in their homes, they don't have to travel to the west, like most battens in India and Nepal and his holiness speaks a lot about it. And that's the reason why he set up the Tibet innovation prize because he wanted to avoid this brain drain. Um, I'm one of them of these Tibetans that have left India, but it's to combat that it's, that, you know, our traditions continue, um, grow. Um, and with the sponsor Tibetan doctor, um, you know, we're promoting scholarship, we're encouraging younger generation Tibetans. No, no
Speaker 1 00:43:05 Only doctor, by the way, by the way, I have a, I have a plan which I have not been able to fund so far because we've had a hard time really getting heavy duty funding that has only as Ron starts to get, he wants us to, he told me and a bunch of officials again, who I won't name, uh, in the eighties, when we first moved into our new place on 15th street, our own place, you know, we moved out of the house, we helped them, but we were sharing with them on 32nd street, moved to 15 and he's always visited. And then he told them all help. This Tibet house become endowed. So it has capital, so it can fund other projects and do things. And they said, Lola's Lola's loaners. And then they just competed ever since, you know, the way it is.
Speaker 1 00:43:51 And so, and so, uh, we've not been able to do that, but, but when we do, which, cause I don't give up and I haven't died. And I had a nice letter from his holiness urging, he ordered me actually to stay as long as necessary. And, uh, and that is, um, that Menzie Kong should expand its education programs to also teach people like in a three-year program, not seven, eight years as a doctor and then five years in one of the 50 clinics. So 12 years really, but shorter one for nurses, for people doing external therapies, massage therapy, for example, who are not necessarily licensed to deal with the herbal thing and don't go to that property, they can do the lifestyle counseling. And so, and, and some young women can have a chance and a shot at that. There's very few of them who can get through the whole doctor thing, but there are a few, but very few, you know, and there are no training for Tibet nurses. And then if we could make it more popular, uh, then people like the Hyatt hotel chain and these people could set up like men law sort of spots within their hotel and at first, and then they could hire and give good jobs in Nepal, India in diaspora, uh, to Tibet, uh, expert, uh, external therapy, you know, people who do tapping, who do cupping occupants
Speaker 2 00:45:14 Within the Tibetan medicine,
Speaker 1 00:45:17 We don't have to be as paranoid as the Tibetan medical Institute is about some pharma company, which is much more dangerous. The pharma company coming in and stealing some formula and then making a half-baked one and, and marketing it like Tibetan wars, which the Chinese knew by the way the Chinese sell, they do, they have a medicine. They sell very profitably in Shanghai and everywhere called snow land something which basically is just ground the act bones. It's not any real, proper demand and formula at all. And they end with the placebo effect of people thinking it's pure and China itself is so polluted nowadays that they think this is going to make him go away their back pain. And probably some of them, it helps some of them from the mental element, but it's a really bad disgraceful thing actually, that they do a note to veterans to get nothing out of that
Speaker 2 00:46:10 That's appropriating the Tibetan brand, isn't it, and the Tibetans
Speaker 1 00:46:13 Goodwill to appropriate database, or they try to register it with UNESCO, our wonderful gay, she Sam then who is the vice chancellor of the Tibet Nuno central university of Tibetan studies. You know, he, he's the one who formulated the sort of whole case about Tibet medicine in India to actually have it passed by the legislature. It had been informally accepted for a long time, but it had not actually been passed in the legislature in the parliament until he did that. And then he fought them with UNESCO also by showing that red medicine is its own brand and so on, and the whole SOA Rick, uh, business. And so they, you know, they're, they're very sensitive about it and they're intelligent and good about it and we support all of that. And, um, and so, uh, so don't worry too much about it, but it's good that you're aware of it.
Speaker 1 00:47:04 And, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna help you as much as we can really. We really are. And, and, uh, and, and, and you are helping the Tibetan medical community. That's really good. In fact, we, we did have one big conference that we co-organized with. One of the people who used to be a staff person at Tibet house, and then independently, she did, she passed away. Unfortunately she was Mexican and we had a big one in Washington, sometime all Tibet medical people from all over the world. Uh, and it was really a lot of fun and some llamas, you know, so I remember she was there. I gave a dialogue with Toga MACI at that time. And, uh, we, we, if there's been a call for another one, but you know, also Tibetans themselves can be a competitive with each other. And here in America, there actually are quite a few Tibet trained physicians in India.
Speaker 1 00:47:55 And a few out of China who studied at last MNC Kong or shinning Mansi con. And, uh, and then they don't get along well, you know, the ones from India and the ones from China, they are friendly, polite, but you know, they to get, to get them to work together. It's very complicated. And, but your app will do that in the sense that they have a venue. Would you, you know, then they could do it. A lot of the ones who are here cannot practice the medicine and they actually work in a law office or the restaurant or something else, which is a huge waste of their, of their, uh, you know, intellectual capital you could say. And we want to try to fix that, but we've been hampered by struggle for funding over time, you know, but we're getting, we're getting there, we're going to get there and we're going to work with you as much as possible, and you can advise us and you can, and we can, we can get people for you also, we'll try to get clients for you.
Speaker 1 00:48:46 It's wonderful. So that's your, and we've advised doctors here to work with you to make them physicians. There are more than you think in north America, uh, quite a few, but they don't know that because they're not able to really practice except in the community and in the community. So, so they, they, it's a waste that they don't get to practice, but they've already done years of study in practice. So anyway, it's wonderful and congratulations, and, uh, and, um, we look forward to long-term collaboration and, um, just please let us know what we can do to help at any time. And, uh, on, on we go, that's really great. Yeah. I'm so proud of you really. I really am. I'm sure his whole, it says too very, very much. And remember he said that the secret of good health and long life is altruism. You know, that you're serving others and, and benefiting them. And then that benefit to them. It gives you the life energy that extends your life and your health and makes you happy. You know, his famous thing. If you want to be successfully selfish, meaning, find happiness for yourself, then be compassionate touristic. Because when you decided to really do that, like you are doing the first person who gets happier as you,
Speaker 4 00:50:16 You know,
Speaker 1 00:50:17 And nowadays, by the way, after the Corona apocalypse is I call it, uh, a lot of people I know, quit their banking job and they quit their broker job and they quit their, this and that. And they said, the moment, the day they quit, they were so much happier. They found something else to do. They were consulting here or doing something else. You know, they didn't all find out that they are, they are serving their, their national identity, their nation, their people by making their healing wisdom known and making it accessible to people who can, you know, it was very sad. You know, the people who used to invite you as you done did. And some of the other physicians who traveled about <inaudible>, they never kept good records. They didn't, uh, they didn't cooperate with each other. And, and, and they wouldn't. And there was one lady who recently died, who had some records. And I don't know what happened to them because it was very disorderly, her passing away. If people were trying to, who was going to adopt her dog here. And she was a veterinarian also. And so we lost a record of thousands of patients, actually, thousands of volumes. And I hope some, many of them have found your, your service, but, you know, I don't unfortunately have the access to that list because they were all, no, I don't want to share it because somebody will take the point, which is, you know, <inaudible> yeah. <inaudible>
Speaker 2 00:51:46 Th th they're looking for the cure, they're looking for something to alleviate the healing. Um, I'm, I'm in the beginning of my entrepreneur journey, I was thinking of competition about protecting myself, but I realized actually every ideas are a dime, a dozen it's actually execution, and everyone produces their, um, product or service in a different way. The way I've done it is with the purpose of promoting Tibetan culture over anything. And, but using that excellence in Tibetan medicine to promote, and, you know, really making sure that the really right doctors are on board, who are aligned in our vision, our mission, and the way we treat our customers, treating each customer as well. So they want to advertise, um, but also doing it in a professional way, you know, um, ensuring it's confidential, ensuring that the patients get the right away. So
Speaker 1 00:52:43 Yes, yes, absolutely. By the way, do you know the people who have an address and they have a building that they call Tibet house London or Tibet house UK, do you know them elderly couple, I think. And, uh, do you have any cooperative relationship with them?
Speaker 2 00:53:01 I haven't reached out to them. Um, I, I set this up kind of as a passion project with my own funds and try to do it myself. Um, but collaborating, um, I love to collaborate anyone who kind of believes in our vision and who promote the app, the doctors themselves come on as independent consultants. Are you talking about the, um, are you talking about the people who kind of center actual building in Tibet house?
Speaker 1 00:53:27 Is that, is that what it's called? You know, I met them once. It's an elderly British couple. I think they actually physically own the house. So in a way from the deli and our point of view, it doesn't officially qualify as a Tibet house because it doesn't belong to a nonprofit with a board, a board that does it for Tibet to benefit in some way, but it doesn't have to be all Tibetans, but it has to be a, it has to have a board that, that organization owns the house, you know? And so the activities, the non-profit activities go on for the benefit of it. And they, and theirs doesn't quite qualify because I think they couldn't afford their elderly. And I think they couldn't afford to give it, but they've given a lot of time and effort toured, I think, and they have events, but I met them maybe 10 years ago.
Speaker 1 00:54:14 I haven't been able to get much to learn because I'm not, I don't have a big travel budget to go around the lobby here, there, otherwise I would, but I only amend it in a sense that I would think it would be if they're still doing any active programs, they should be channeling people toward you and toward your site. And they should know about it. And they should as important product of Tibetan culture, it should be something that they are giving people access to, that they should be in their purview. Do you know what I mean? They don't have to take anything away from you. And in fact, they should help enhance your thing by sending people to honor your website and promoting your website is all I'm saying. And, uh, if I was able to visit next time I can come there. If I get there, I will try.
Speaker 1 00:55:00 I had, I did come and touch yoga just before Corona virus in 2019 in London. I hadn't been in London for 10 years by that, before that, but I didn't have time. It was, I was teaching and I had a short Saifai. I'm always busy here, so I had to leave. Um, and I didn't get a chance to go to them and get them. I didn't know about your app it's at that time. But, um, next time I will definitely try to link that up. And how about that house? How about Tibet house Barcelona, wrong Chandler? Do you know him? Have you had this? We knew about your app and know. Okay. So we'll make, we'll make one, w
Speaker 2 00:55:37 My head done making the app that I haven't come up for air. Well, let's stick with
Speaker 1 00:55:42 That. Don't worry. Don't worry. I'm guessing I'm just brainstorming. I'm brainstorming with you.
Speaker 2 00:55:48 But one, one idea wants to out is actually using social media influencers who are already in wellness and holistic health and pitching the idea of the sponsor doctors screen to them that if they promote the sponsor doctor screen and influencers know how to do this, because they can, they have all these meds, they have the platform, then go a five pounds. Perhaps we could name the scholarship offer,
Speaker 1 00:56:19 Right? That's a good idea.
Speaker 2 00:56:29 We're empowering them to have an ID. I already got one social media influencer who has about 140,000 followers in wellness. Who's very interested in that. And she loved that, you know, it's, it's, uh, another woman, um, and that scholarship would be for another Tibetan woman doctor. And it really aligns with, you know, my app. I actually, I Tibetan women doctors. I'm the most booked because men like to talk to women, doctors and women like to talk to women, doctors for women's specific conditions. Well, actually, it's very good. It seems really great to give them yes.
Speaker 1 00:57:06 And, uh, I think this is a great effort. We will work together as much as we can and try to enhance what you're doing. And, um, and we'll try and get maybe other two bed houses to try to send traffic toward you as well. And around the world, if we could, anybody we can find and for the moment. Okay. And thank you so much for being on the podcast. And I hope, I hope lots of people downloaded it and take a look at it.
Speaker 0 00:57:52 The Bob Thurman podcast is generous support of the Tibet house, us Menlo membership, community, and listeners like you. And it's distributed here at creative commons, new derivatives license, please feel free to share like, and post on your favorite social media platform, Tashi. And thanks for tuning in.
