Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:14 Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful and some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet house us to help preserve Tibetan culture. If that house is the Dalai Lama's control center in America, all best wishes. Have a great day.
Speaker 1 00:00:48 This is episode 263, a conversation with Kentrell grim for Shea.
Speaker 2 00:01:14 Okay. Greetings everyone. I'm very happy to present and to have on my podcast. I'm honored to have on my podcast, the great Lama, uh, Kendra and BJ from the, from the journalism school. But also non-sectarian just to general, one of the great Lamas on the planet right now, his main residence in exile is in Australia. Uh, remember say, and the Dalai Lama, those two are the two major college chakra teachers on the planet. And, um, I remember Jay has a very special distinction of presenting to the world as a whole, uh, the <inaudible> vision of the college Shakur with its particular expertise in that area. Um, the Jonah school was very, very, um, uh, famous in Tibet. I still is. And, um, um, but it hasn't been as well known in the round the world until recently. And that is really thanks to remember Jay. He has really made it known that he is on the internet and that I had a wonderful way. Um, and, um, so I think I, I, I asked her for Jane to come and talk with us on the basis of this text that he wrote called the realm of Shambala and, um, and, uh, which I liked very much. And also it recently came out in paperback. It says a complete vision for humanity's perfection and by Shar, Kendra jumbo, loader, his full name is, and so we're very honored to have your hair number Che. You're a to-go. So you were recognized at what age were you recognized as a, as a tool
Speaker 3 00:03:02 Is a little bit unusual? Uh, not no more, uh, because no more, uh, to be an alarmist, they recognize a young age and then they rubbed her in the cell. Uh, and, uh, so, um, and then, uh, everybody worship, uh, and, uh, you know, like, uh, that kind of, uh, but I don't have that to saw, um, uh, actually, uh, I, I am, uh, uh, the Turco, uh, before, uh, that the, uh, Lama he passed away before, uh, he, uh, kind of, yeah, he kind of told my mother, uh, so like that, uh, but at that, yeah, that one is a Noma tradition. So, but then, uh, before I born and I, I run the, I born man many other Lamas at that time, he didn't, you know, like, uh, not allowed a religion. So that time he didn't bought a D D doors, all llamas recommended, uh, is, uh, Hep to be hired identi uh, otherwise, uh, many problems, uh, not only just the religious freedom don't have that job, not that any problem, but also there's a Tibetan, a superstition.
Speaker 3 00:04:23 So if we have great Lama or something like that, then they're not in our merits and then they going to die or lost. And that kind of also, even though you not lost the llama, uh, eh, some, uh, big obstacles for activities in the future, something like that, or many Lama, the recommended as a be humble and just, uh, ignore the, the I didn't D uh, keep secrets like that. So then, uh, then, uh, of course we did that way. And so I didn't know a long time inter I did grow up, uh, but then, uh, my mother telling me a little bit to things and, um, but my father never wanted to any recognize whatsoever. Uh, my father actually is that I think is a little bit, uh, really wise. He just told my mother, uh, you know, N not tell anybody when the relatives, because
Speaker 2 00:05:30 It wasn't at that time. What, what city, what town were you born in Chen and I'm, don't
Speaker 3 00:05:39 I born at Cora the region, uh, nowadays, uh, people, uh, I didn't find that it is a part of am though, but it's not real I'm though, but, uh, yeah, just a kind of immediate east of Tibet, uh,
Speaker 2 00:05:59 Wonderful, strong people from going off. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:06:04 Yeah. And so we have, uh, many great Lamas born global and also very <inaudible>. And so we don't have a huge sectarian view. So he's holy he's all in his many times, uh, he, uh, said that in the public, you know, like, uh, he mentioned the two llamas, particularly to Lama. The one is when he's in Yamaha, he mentioned Dan, this Lama is incredible. They know very well, the Gaelic Palama, he knows very well the Noma school. And then the <inaudible>, he knows so well, even the gala texts and he's already in, he's mentioned many times, but that's my region.
Speaker 2 00:06:52 Of course. Wonderful. Well then since you had to be a little bit secret at first, were you able to study when you were young, did you and you, and become a monkey, weren't able to do that right away then maybe.
Speaker 3 00:07:04 Yeah. I didn't even become a monk inter uh, edgy over 19.
Speaker 2 00:07:09 Yeah. Well, that's traditional way. That's okay. That's really good.
Speaker 3 00:07:13 Yeah. It's uh, so I, from the age of 19, I have to read everything. I have to, uh, teach myself a read and everything because we don't have schools or nothing. So, uh, it's a very, some people are even, oh, how come you become monk? And now it's almost impossible. You can catch up over it. And, uh, people would have that kind of a,
Speaker 2 00:07:39 Did you catch up with him actually, but you became very expanded in your view. It's really wonderful. And so I think that shows that you can't keep a genius down. I think it's really wonderful. And then did you, when did you get out to Australia then when you were after some decade or so, when did you go to Australia? Um,
Speaker 3 00:08:02 Uh, in 2003 as I think more like 2004.
Speaker 2 00:08:08 Okay. Yeah. Oh, that's great. And, um, I like it, you know, we met in Bodhgaya first time, right. When we met at college around a time that was most suspicious, really. I thought that was wonderful. And, um, I liked particularly your, you have a kind of new way of, uh, of, um, understanding, I think, Shambala in a special way, which I like very much. So. Um, what, what would you like mainly today to tell us from the Che yourself? Um, w when did you have a put it this way? Maybe, did you have a bigger experience? Did you dream about Shambala? Did you have, um, sort of powerful awakening experience at some age, or at some time, did it come gradually your insight and your devotion to the college chakra? Or how did, how did that work and was your family originally with connected with Jonah and school, or you chose that yourself, or tell us a little about how you, how you developed?
Speaker 3 00:09:11 Oh, my father was a Noma is a, he is a, not really a Genova. Uh, and then he, my, my, my mother is a teacher also neuroma, or wasn't the channel. So I also studied <inaudible>. I did, um, you know, guide your path, these practices. I did many years into journal school, the list I went to, you know, so, and then, uh, finally, uh, I have many, many teachers, many Lama. I was better than the most, my favorite <inaudible> so, yes.
Speaker 2 00:09:59 Okay. So then, uh,
Speaker 3 00:10:01 Then, uh, also I, uh, participate at the retreat at the six year old guys and everything. So then I becomes my main practice, the class, and that way I conducted it.
Speaker 2 00:10:16 Oh, that's great. And you, you did the dark retreat and the day and the night retreat, the day retreat, this thing.
Speaker 3 00:10:23 Yes, of course we have the three year retreat strictly we practice at that time. We have to group practice together. So I have to lead to some groves, uh, you know, like that my, my, I have my asking me lead them. So I have two, two groves lead in there, man, like that. And three, three years incredible practice. And then after two years we are together, finished it, then I feel the need to, uh, by myself. So then I did, uh, by myself, solar to solar to truly practice, uh, one year,
Speaker 2 00:10:58 Uh, oh, fantastic. That's wonderful. I'm a chair. And then you decided then who did, when did you learn English? Who decided to teach foreigners
Speaker 3 00:11:09 Only in Australia,
Speaker 2 00:11:12 But you speak very well. It's wonderful. So that's, and you carry the message of the color chakra to the world and very bravely, I think I really like it. So, so why did you write this book about Chumba in particular? Uh, the be honest
Speaker 3 00:11:29 Is, uh, when I, uh, uh, but people don't have much information about, uh, Shambala only just name and a little bit story as we have in the data <inaudible>, uh, those students, but, uh, so people don't talk much beyond that. So then I very big Crius all the time. So then I always, uh, uh, you know, like a big inspiration to explore more understanding, and then I come to the, uh, Australia and then I see the outside people a bit. And, uh, they, uh, they also have a big discussion about the color, the Shambala, but, uh, no really answer, uh, very clearly anything. So I went to the India, uh, Buddhas, the separate place.
Speaker 3 00:12:36 So that times I had, uh, many visions and, uh, I had, uh, experience, uh, or those stints. But, uh, uh, this also is very difficult to communicate with a human language you saw, uh, I years, uh, years, I tried to how communicate this, you know, and then, uh, not contradict to the traditional information we have under not contradict to one of my own experience, and then also how people can understand and like that. And then after I know a little bit English, then I research it. I don't have much capacity research, but my students helped me research. What, uh, what the other language is talking about, the Shambala, everything. Then I find that everything is a, like a pieces, uh, pieces everywhere, but the not a completion information. So then I tried to put together, so then, um, uh, the, my student has helped me a lot, uh, put together, uh, you know, the language, you know, how understandable. So like that way,
Speaker 2 00:13:56 It's really wonderful. Like you have this concept of the fragmented interpretations of Shambala and the first chapter, which I really like, you know, the fragmented Shambala, just some little bits, like a myth, you know, and then entertainment and philosophy and, um, kind of how the Russians thought about it. And, um, and then even the politics, you know, that, you know that in America where the president goes, camp David, they call it nowadays. But that was originally called Shambala. Did you know that?
Speaker 3 00:14:29 No. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:14:31 In the time of FTO, you know, Roosevelt, the second Roosevelt, his, uh, secretary of state foreign secretary was someone called Henry Wallace somehow created that retreat for the president to go to where they go now to call camp David nowadays. But in those days he calls it and he had that idea and, you know, Roosevelt wrote a letter to the Dalai Lama. He wanted to get help from the Tibetans against the Japanese, you know, and just that didn't work out well, but because, uh, you know, they weren't, the Tibetan government was afraid of Janka check, so they didn't help, they didn't help. But, uh, it was, uh, there was a sort of connection like that, a mystical connection you could say, but the Americans, yeah, symbolic devotional, I mean, it's extraordinarily analytically, you know, it's very analytic and very lucid. I find it very persuasive. I've never seen anyone write so well about our chakra, you know, as you do, you know, where is Shambhala? Where do you think it is? Where is Shambala? Actually,
Speaker 3 00:15:41 I think the, when we say, where is the Shambala? And then, uh, often people answer, you know, like, uh, some location, uh, traditionally, uh, usually people answer and then other people just answer, oh, we know Canberra in the, in our heart and our step people just talk like that, you know? Um, yeah. But uh, to me is, uh, uh, we cannot Shambala, you know, like, uh, uh, uh, we cannot shop a lot. Where is, where is the Shambala? We cannot report a finger pointed to say, oh, Shambala is there before we, uh, when we say, where is the Shambala? We have to, uh, identify Richie lever of Shambala. You talking about, you know, like, yeah, the, we, if we talking about that, the traditional, uh, uh, information, uh, stating that the text that Shambala, I, I call a body salary. Um, you know, I know did not identify as <inaudible> and not identify, uh, uh, some salary, but I am more like, what is terrarium is just between bitumen and the Buddha, the Ram, and between the some salary I'm. So that's why it's a body salary. If we talking about that and that one also, you know, like, uh, depending at the time, you know, like if you, depending on the time and the defendant, the individual, you know, so, so then we have to, uh, the complex, uh, all for the karma. If we understand this, then didn't, we understand that the individual, uh, Shambala, and then we understand that the Sheeran our shit in Shambala, you know? Yes, yes. Right, right.
Speaker 3 00:17:38 Uh, the body, uh, body, Sarah steady the talking in the, in the text, that one is, uh, uh, Shirin, uh, Shambala, you know, so, uh, that's meant in this planet and this humanity is sharing karmic connection. We have the church karmic connection with Shambala. So that's why I think Buddha prophesies, uh, we, the disconnection we can, uh, we can transform our world, uh, golden age, you know? So, yeah, so that one is, uh, individually you can find an S uh, particular locations, but in everybody can find in one location, no possible, you know,
Speaker 2 00:18:22 But then the story about how about 400 years from now, the suddenly the country becomes visible somewhere up in like the north pole or something Siberia, something like that is that, that is a, you take that as an only mythical. You don't say that you think that is not a real thing. What do you think?
Speaker 3 00:18:42 No, I don't think this is medical. You know, some people could think as medical, of course they have a reasons I can think of medical, but I, I feel like, uh, uh, it is a rare and that, um, and that particularly people for them, that connection as a real, but I, what I see is is that this Shambala is particularly small. Kingdom is no longer anymore is after the juice, the color tantra and the practice of the culture. I didn't transcended these, uh, you know, this Shambala is not, is like much more subtle, uh, and all that.
Speaker 2 00:19:29 No, there's another dimension, but it's supposed to be on earth. I think somewhere I had a dream about it once it seemed to be, but I didn't dream very clearly about it, but I, it seemed to be somewhere in the north north of Mongolia yeah. Into
Speaker 3 00:19:46 The north. Yeah. I think that the individually, you can find, you know, like, uh, anywhere than engender, we can find anywhere, anywhere. So is, uh, is, is the different, what are you said is a different dimension and it depends our, the common connection and the meritorious, uh, you know, value enough, you know? So that's why so,
Speaker 2 00:20:11 Well, and then what about the time now? What I love when you said when you and your seventh chapter, I liked so much where you wrote about, um, the, uh, well, the seventh and eighth chapter, the quarter goals and age. I love that one. And, uh, because I, when, when I was young on my, around 20, I wanted it to be next week, so I wanted to start tuner. And, um, and then, um, this experiencing Shambala in your life, I really, how did you have such a wonderful idea? I think it's marvelous. I really love it. And, um, you know, I have a friend, um, who I haven't seen in a long time, who is a Christian, and he, he's the sort of, um, sort of, he was in the, you when he was younger, you know, like, uh, like a medium, you know, four and four.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 So if some kind of person named John, like, uh, like the John in the book of revelation and the Christian literature, you know, that predicts the future war. And then the age of the age of this new Jerusalem, they call it, you know, like, and, um, when he grew up, he grew up in a family that was very strongly into preaching about that. And he had an uncle and he was being trained to be such a preacher himself because he was a very intelligent young, young boy. And, um, he had an uncle that gave him a preaching one day and he was saying very threatening to people. He was saying, if you don't believe, you know, then when Jesus comes back, you will get destroyed and there'd be a war you're talking like this. And then, and then the little boy, some other people told me this story.
Speaker 2 00:22:00 He didn't want to say it, but he kind of had mentioned. And he said, he held up his hand and he said, I don't like that story on call. And then, you know, in a question period or something, and then the uncle said, what do you mean you don't like it? And he said, well, I don't think Jesus wants to have so many people just show up. No, I don't like that. I think that's some strange idea. And then the uncle said to him, well, who's going to save them. Is that you, the uncle said when he was little, and then he said, all right. Yes, I will. Yeah. And then, and then he made the theory that the new Jerusalem is already here. If people live in a certain way. And then I, I took inspiration from that about Shambhala. And I said, well, shamble, I should be here sooner.
Speaker 2 00:22:50 And I don't like waiting for war and all this kind of thing. You know, there are plenty of wars of course, around. Um, so again, I never met, I had tremendous argument with different Tibetans because they say 427 years or whatever. They don't talk about that. You know, they don't say that. And I had big argument and I said, I told them, well, if you, if you think there's a war against some enemies, why would you tell them the exact time? Don't you want to surprise that maybe the scripture is not giving the true story and they would just get really angry. And they wouldn't be the only one, my old Mongolian teacher, a little bit supported me in an argument like that. I was having with one, one zebra, you know, I was arguing with one zebra. So your theory that you're the first to bed I know who has really has that vision, that Shambala accessible spiritually. If we practice the Tundra, if we practice today, or even if we try to be a good person in a way, but better to try, it's helpful for us. So I really appreciate it. And what, can you tell us why, how you came to that idea?
Speaker 2 00:24:04 Oh,
Speaker 3 00:24:06 Uh, I think that the, uh, the roots is, uh, I think the, in, in the human mind always, uh, you know, like, uh, everything we kind of see as black and white, and then we say, oh, Shambala and Samsara is a Shambala is only one. And then Samsara is one, you know, like that. And then, uh, so when you win, if you don't see that, if we see, uh, levers of Shambala and, you know, the Shambala, firstly, we can understand the level of Shambala levels of Shambala can be many shambles, not just one Shambala Shambala. And then we can understand that that individually you can have in your life and incredible, perfectly peace and harmony, how many is there gone on? And, uh, we can yourself and I run to you then is why is not the Shambala? You know, like, uh, it doesn't matter if your neighbors are fighting, whatever you are not disturbed anything.
Speaker 3 00:25:08 Ah, so, so, and that way, and then we can, we can build the Shambala in this old, uh, you know, like, uh, any 10 possible that just need to just need people's, uh, direction, you know, like, uh, uh, Mo uh, leader movements, you know, like some implemented very fast, you know? So that's why I, I, I just say if we have to wait 400 years, uh, this is just one of the Buddhas communication and particularly bins, you know, so why we have to take it completely, literally no post there, any other ways, you know, like bad karma is also like, like a fixed, you cannot change anything karma. So it's, then we have to karma and everything have to rewrite, you know?
Speaker 3 00:26:02 So, so in that logic to me is, uh, uh, yeah, so that's why is, uh, the Tibetans, the prayers and everything always there say when we, uh, after 400 years of, uh, the Shambala destroyed all bad ones and then, uh, maybe a born, yeah. Something like always like this, but I don't really like that player. I like prayer. I will, I will do this. So, you know, I'm a, may I, IB can be the responsible for this. You know, I can do this, this, this incredible courage we need built in the heart, because this is when we talking about body Salwa and body cheetah is a real body. Cheetah is a, is a compassionate warrior, you know, like warrior nation. So if we don't build that in our heart and just say, oh, when you have a destroy, everything that time, please send me. This is not really, uh, bodies and bodies. Yeah. Buddha himself saying us, you know, like you are your own liberatory, you know, nobody else Buddhists, all of that. So we forgotten that and we always say, oh, please hear me. You know, like that kind of, eh, I don't even see as a Buddhist, I don't even see as the bodies have a past. So that's why I think it's a, we can transform one level of Shambala in this world, you know? So I see that.
Speaker 2 00:27:39 I said, I really liked, then you say, you say that breaking down barriers to realize Shambala, and then you talk about this. Where did you get this great idea? The eight forms of bias. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a <inaudible> bias bias. Would you say bias in Tibetans?
Speaker 3 00:28:06 Uh, yeah, we core, uh, uh, uh, recheck. You could reach it or shrubbery,
Speaker 2 00:28:16 He territories timber. So then you have you, have you have you start with the gender? I think that's so important. Tell him fantastic. Yeah. And then do you want to say about each one that you have anything particular, you have the eight levels here on page 1 0 1 and 100. And, um, I just, I never seen this, this, um, structure of analysis, which I think is really, really excellent. And did you, is there any particular one you want to talk about in general? What about the gender one?
Speaker 3 00:28:49 Yeah, so the gender one, I, so, you know, like, uh, um, um, I see is, uh, I, what I see is, uh, it's not only see I experienced this, you know, like the, the gender, uh, we have the male and female, this kind of agenda, uh, is like, uh, it's more like gross level, you know, like gross level, but a more subtle level. We have everything, male have the female quality in inside, you know? Yes. And the female has male quality, everything, you know, like they just only our site, the gross level of the body and a little bit different than the gross level of the emotion, little bit different. But then if you go Saturday, Saturday or similar, you know, or so that's why, that's why I think that the gala has been, all these tests can happens because of that. Otherwise the why, how come you happen?
Speaker 2 00:29:52 I have another question, you know, I, I, myself, I'm thinking something, you know, we have dual commons who come, so we have the desire realm, the form realm and the formulas from three rounds. Right. And then, but the desire realm is also a form realm because we have matter in the desire. The thing about the desire realm is there's gender there. So male and female and the female booking for the male and the male is looking for the female, but the realm of pure form, there's no such gender. It seems to me, but you know, in the ancient texts, only writers, there's no women there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if there's no women, there's no men <inaudible> has both male and female elements. So they're sort of, their monies must have a several hundred G sort of like a kind of a combination in each being in each, uh, tongue there <inaudible> yeah.
Speaker 2 00:30:58 The, the <inaudible>, that's why it's pure form because it's not the endure of sexuality it's going on in the form realm. And for example, in pure land, that means in <inaudible> <inaudible> in those lands, they say, they only say in the old text is no women. Yeah. But that's, to me that's rude to women. There's no men, or if there's no women and even in, in, in to cavity in any, they don't eat ordinary food. They don't have, um, excrement, you know, yak, biome. They don't, they don't excrete anything. So they're not, so there's no sexual gender differentiation. So it's, it's just a kind of, it's a kind of cultural thing to say, no women, but actually there's no gender at all. Something like that. What do you think?
Speaker 3 00:31:56 Yeah, I think that this, uh, text, uh, uh, I answers, uh, before say, uh, many feminine people, uh, very upset about, you know, this, uh, uh, you have no woman, Bubba, why like this. And then I say, uh, they, there is, uh, two possibilities. One is we talking about the ultimate union? Uh, if there's an ultimate, a union, there is no such thing you have to identify separately or what you said. And the other possibility, you know, like, uh, uh, we have to have to think about, uh, uh, what time Buddha taught that, what kind of the community, the culture he taught about, uh, that time is like, uh, nobody wants to inspiration to be a woman. You know, like the culture is so, so bad on, on woman or something like that. How do you go on a woman? So then, then maybe if you say a white, you have no woman, and then that's kind of leading to inspiration, you know? Uh, so that's also a possibility. We have to think of many things.
Speaker 2 00:33:04 I never saw an my book or anything got there. <inaudible> and then the shingles are basically no gender, if there's no women there's no, man. Yeah. They don't have a gender. Nope. So that's really important because nowadays the wholly quality of the genders is a huge thing and that, that will make important thing for Shambhala. Then, then let me jump on that question gala further. And that is, I remember J and that is, uh, not true. Yes. She has no atoms, but then he has an outcome or he has no outcome. So when he's connected with her.
Speaker 3 00:33:59 Yeah, I think, uh, when we were talking about the color chakra, you know, uh, the IBM calendula union, that time we talking about the ultimate union, you know, images and everything. One is a female, female, uh, well, one is a man like that is, is, uh, just for, uh, for normal people can relate it with the mind, you know, but, uh, the ultimate, the ultimate, uh, the absolute color era, uh, and then at the, uh, um, uh, <inaudible> is, uh, if you can explain many ways, you know, like, uh, you, you can say the ultimate beauty, the ultimate beauty, but also you can explain that automated mother, you know, ultimately mother nature, or you can say, ah, inseparable inseparability, you know, in <inaudible>, uh, the masculine and feminine, the completely, completely a hundred percent a union, you know, that's, uh, uh, is union men's. That is not two together put together like, like ordinary union, APV say, oh, we have, we, you not very well, you know, like, uh, that is not the ultimate union, but the ultimate union is, uh, is an inseparable inseparable. It, you know? Sure.
Speaker 2 00:35:22 That's wonderful. Yes. So that's a, that's a, that's a unique thing. I think it's just amazing. Not told him I really like it. I used to translate and not talk as, as universal, like a Syrah or Maha, but I think it's multifarious. I tend to live now nowadays multifarious multitask, and then race, you know, the race thing is so bad. I always think COVID chakra is so excellent because he has a red, white, and a very dark blue, almost black, red, white, and dark blue, and then finally yellow in the back, you know, he has the yellow, so that's, that's the native American people are red and actually Tibetan used to be don't Marvel. And then the white is the Europeans and, uh, and the black Africans and then yellow are the Chinese. Yeah. That's one body has all the colors.
Speaker 3 00:36:24 Yes. Yes. That
Speaker 2 00:36:26 Is an ideal for, you know, cause we have so much trouble about race. Yes, yes. In Australia you have the Aborigines and the right people from Europe, a very sad story for a long time. Maybe a bit better, maybe a bit better in our days, maybe a little bit. Right. They're trying to do something I think. And we have very bad story here. Of course.
Speaker 3 00:36:49 Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. This, uh, uh, race and everything, you know, like, uh, we just forgot even the, you know, like from the beginning we are just one human source. Hey,
Speaker 2 00:37:08 David, Todd, the Tundra reminds us of the, all the skin color is irrelevant. They just interconnect very beautifully in one body. Really? I think that's great. And then the young and the old, I never would've thought of that. That's pretty great. What do you mean? You mean the young people think that's a whole thing is about them and then the old people forget about it. And that
Speaker 3 00:37:35 Is that, that's what you mean by that young and old, man's just there today and tomorrow, you know, like, ah, I'm old by the tomorrow you older, you know, so it's, I'm young. Oh. And,
Speaker 2 00:37:49 And my, my own attitude was very much like that. And recently I had a friend whose mother died and I asked how old, and they said, well, 92. And then I was thinking, I'm now 80. So then I'm thinking, oh, that's too young.
Speaker 3 00:38:12 Yes. I think the young and the old, also many our attitude to, you know, like a man attitude does make the very differences. It's usually people are stuck with one piece of paper, you know, like piece of paper, when is your birthday like that? But the main 10 is a little how you feel and your, what are your, you do you know, that's the main Tinder. Yes. So, because that's approved, you know, like may and many people, even a, if you look at the day edge on the paper and they're much, much 30 years, the younger ones, they feel older than you, you know, like
Speaker 2 00:38:56 Totally let me show you. Uh, you did not reach 50 yet. I don't think so.
Speaker 3 00:39:08 Um, uh, you know, I originally born in, um, uh, uh, uh, I, you know, uh, if I re originally born, I, uh, not is, uh, uh, almost reaching 60, but I, yeah, I, I experienced it to my reduce my, uh, you know, there's a age I experienced that, uh, once then I believe that a hundred percent. And after that I become okay.
Speaker 2 00:39:41 Wonderful. Yeah. I don't see you. I see you in the forties, late forties, 48. <inaudible>
Speaker 3 00:39:59 Uh, the original one is, uh, uh, rapid. Oh, you're, you're lower in the moon, the rabbit in the moon
Speaker 2 00:40:13 Location. Yes. Near and far. And culture, knowledge, experiential, and conceptual and belief. Then you discuss a view. That's really good. I like that. Yeah. I know. I'm just reading. I was just reading. I have a student who did a translation of me, Palm shin. Don't undermine my helping, you know, I helped him. I tried to be non, non partisan, not by about Shen dong. I'm trying, but, but I, but I do really like, I just, as you know, I, um, philosophically I can see how you can feel the other way. So, um, I'm trying to be acumenical about it. I really
Speaker 3 00:41:10 Am. Uh, I think that Tsongkhapa is, uh, uh, the most special, uh, person who can, uh, you know, like, uh, make a, uh, he, he made it unique, uh, his unique way. He made it with part, you know, and he made his absolutely crystal clear. Very clear. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:41:51 Just, uh, a different viewpoint is, uh, uh, uh, described, uh, uh, because I, I described like, that's where different viewpoints, oh, I want to tell you this. Usually people are call remit, remit the non-sectarian, uh, and then, uh, you know, people encourage you say, oh, we have to be remade. We have to be non-sectarian people say that because that is a politically correct. That's why people say, you know, uh, even they're not saying in the heart, but in this, because the politically correct. Right. But, uh, the, the reason why I have to be remade and then people's main point, or because it's <inaudible> or all of these tall, Popa all of them, they are, uh, reincarnate each other long launch in by, you know, whatever, uh, or this is running Canada, each other, they are same Lama. Re-encounter each other. So we cannot have a one, one is better.
Speaker 3 00:43:00 And one of the wars cannot have that, you know, like not get better than, you know, ma we kind of say that because of the, uh, funders, uh, the SIM person reincarnate and that people, uh, the answer I have, uh, I have unique answer or not in my mind that I'm not saying they are not <inaudible> sure. Of course, but that's the I'm not focused. My full course. Oh, I also may have to make a little bit clear. There are other people saying that's why our, we will point as a help to be sin. You know, people are saying, we have to be same because these funders, the Lamaze, they are in Canada, each other, that's their saying, but I point to you, no, that's not true. The view punches is, cannot be same. They are different, you know, but that different doesn't make me become a sectarian. Why? Because they need, people need the share, you know, intubated.
Speaker 3 00:44:15 But the, she has him, uh, need this, you know, the variety, people need a different views and you know, to have the devotion and they, they need that. Not everybody. That's why, that's why the old many religions we had need on the world, because they, I see is all religion is temporary, you know, temporary, temporary guardian, you know, temporary relief. Yeah. So that's why the whole world needs that religion. But in Viton Tibetans, they need also, this viewpoint is I never said Topaz viewpoint. And Tsongkhapa the viewpoint is a sin. I never say a sin, but they bought crystal clear, you know what? They punter you. And they both have a benefits and liberating people. Huh?
Speaker 2 00:45:12 Yes. They both have people. Yes.
Speaker 3 00:45:15 That's why it's, uh, uh, uh, it's. I describe as a lack of medicine, you know, like meaty sin, some medicine for some people posing, you know, but you can't say, oh, your mitigation is very bad because pausing for me. Yeah. Your media is excellent. But not for me, my body, we have to say that same thing we say, oh, we cannot say, oh, <inaudible> is, is so bad. Because as not suitable for me, I know, I know what I understand. And I disagree. So that's why it's so bad. You can't say that right. So bad. I kind of see it as we report it so bad because it's not matching with a Topo. I can't say that because Tsongkhapa, we've appointed how many people liberate, how many people, you know, he didn't do the enlargement. Yeah. So that's why I'm saying,
Speaker 2 00:46:20 I totally agree the way is that I have a thing where I like Buddha a lot, because he's the one who says, wow, I know everything. And it's great Nirvana, but I'm sorry, whatever I say is not adequate too much. Yes. Therefore all theories are contextual. They're useful in particular relation or context. There's no theory. That's absolute theory. So therefore that means that everyone has to be become, could be conceptually resilient in order to be able to go beyond conceptuality for realization. And it, and we agree with that right there. If some person says, well, this is the only explanation, then he's, then he's contradicting. Yes. He's saying, well, I'm not saying, you know, so that's why I, that's why I agree with you a hundred percent of a chair. And I also, I also think that to be non-sectarian, it's like to be avoid bias. One has to work at it and keep, keep mindful, you know, and, and, and keep, uh, timber and shushing and going to avoid the, the prejudice, you know, the bias. Yeah. I totally get it.
Speaker 3 00:47:47 Yeah. Shorter answer is, uh, you, uh, to be non-sectarian and to respect, uh, genuinely respect, uh, or other traditions, do you agree with their view? You know?
Speaker 2 00:47:59 Yeah, exactly. Completely. Although I also, I think I personally also try to see how you see with that viewpoint. And I like that. And, you know, I consider, for example, I do not agree on the terms of like tenure, some, you know, in some contact <inaudible> way of understanding. I don't agree with that interpretation of that point in that kind of those kinds of texts, but I think the way he understood Kala chakra and the way he felt that the qualities of enlightened qualities, he had a vision in the big super, I never visited that stupor. I think it was, it destroyed by communist or is it rebuild now? I don't know.
Speaker 3 00:48:52 Yeah. We rebuild it, rebuild it. Uh, but, uh, the, the is still closed, uh, big. Yeah, because that time, um, the community to, uh, Colossae about, uh, uh, stupid still there.
Speaker 2 00:49:08 Oh good. Oh, there's two bays there. It's a really tall one really tall. Like what 400 meter, 80 meter,
Speaker 3 00:49:16 Like at that time, 14th century is that is an, an MIG and border, you know, like the big, uh, you know, like, uh, now this is a possibility we have machines and everything. We can build like that big, but that time is really an image. Ember, you know, like people, people must be shocked. He said, you have to build that big.
Speaker 2 00:49:35 I see. Yes. But it was, he had such an amazing vision coming out of the surprise that I liked that long one. <inaudible> that sounds, I really think that's fantastic. Daisy. I do, but I, you know, I haven't had time, but you say in the book, people always make excuses. They don't have time. You catch me on deadline. You did. And that's true. I'm so busy, not the Bentley culture planet anyway, so this is a great, okay. So then, so then in Virginia, then you say color trackers, specifically remove bias. Can you tell us in your own words, how does kind of tech or have a special, you know, you know, because for example, I just want to mention that today, like in America, our democracy is almost destroyed, you know, because as the, of the people, the racist thing, agender and racist, both, both race and gender and, um, and um, people talk about anti-racism also, you know, and trying to get people to be awakened about that, and then other people resisting that very much. So I feel we had Tibetans have special techniques to diminish, to mitigate, to improve on the bias, Bart, race and gender. So if Kala chakra has even more special than the than, than, than, uh, you know, <inaudible>, you know, ranking <inaudible> in that area, you know, is a, is a, is a, is a general one, but it's the special commentary. How do you want to put it in your own words? What is the special thing about undoing the bias? That's such an important thing.
Speaker 3 00:51:33 Yeah. So when we were talking about, uh, you know, like emptiness and is not truly existed, that's why we have to do this distance is, uh, usually people say it, but at that is, uh, the people are saying, this is not, not, not work very well. Why? Because you talk, you talking about a two, two together, you know, so that's why, because when we are only relative level, uh, or the reality is all because of the ultimate is the empty or around Gingy motto, you know, that's not enough, you are not there yet, you know?
Speaker 3 00:52:16 So if you have to find that a relative lever, uh, you know, like what is the, this Monday due to bias? You know, what, when did you, is it just people not think carefully, but it is a very, very simple, you know, like it's just very simple, you know, like even, uh, you know, like, uh, we tend to family or couple or anything, if you let the lesson to couple, the couple think, or the, you know, if they're talking about their different families or something, they, they, they start talking that day, their fight, right. <inaudible> where they come from different families or the who's the superior inferior, or these days forget about, they don't talk about that and how we work together very well. Right. What we want, you know, together that if you ignore the other differences and you know, like this is then you, are you going to have a wonderful life together?
Speaker 3 00:53:22 You know, you're not together very well. The same intent if we, uh, short vision and, and a narrow vivo, and then, you know, we talking about, oh, who's the different, do you know, like the four, because of that. And then the two parties, the fighting this, then, then we lose the unity. We looked at the focus, what did we talk to and achieve? You know, this is so obvious, so, so simple, but it is just people forget about, you know, we don't have to talk too much about at the college level is still too otherwise, you know, like a two, if we don't even not understand it, but I think the in-office just inspiration. How can you not fired the Shambala? You know, how unify the Shambala, unification, how transcended the Shambala, you know? So that is enough. I think, you know, this is, you know, then you like today, you talk about even the symbolic level that color chakra have many, many colors, no other deities. They have many, many colors of one, uh, on the body. So what that means, what that means, that that part is all the diversity together work so well. So that means that the man is the collateral part is the really in our world, you know, so that, I believe that that's why it's logical.
Speaker 2 00:54:53 So what did you think is kind of like the kind of chakra goes beyond the, uh, relativizes making relative their identity. It goes beyond that, you know, that's a beginning like emptiness and it uses imagination to see the positives. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:55:17 Yeah. It's not only is there something else
Speaker 2 00:55:22 It's okay. She wants to answer the questions, know that's in that phone. That's the lady.
Speaker 3 00:55:31 Yeah. Yeah. I think that the culture, uh, the absolute level of, uh, the, of course the, is the ultimate unification, but it's even in the relative lever and the path, or has formed, you know, the Shambala, how United together, you know, we read that chapters is incredible positive, a little bit challenges begin in butter is there is an incredible positive and credible understanding each other, you know, so like that. So, so that's why even the relatively it, this should be worked because what example, even, even, I often tell this example, he's holding, this gives the college and empowerment only few days, but a few days we all like different believes and non-believers all to gather together as big as this is. I see. As, as like symbolic, you know, uh, not simple. How do you call it the, um, sign? You know, the sign of the side of the <inaudible> is, uh, something to unify everything.
Speaker 2 00:56:50 Then you're there, you're a temperate eight toward the golden age is really so great. And then this is, of course you say anti barbarian, not anti his thumb. I like it. Yes, yes, yes. That's the danger, you know, some people in Europe use that, that, that whole story about, yeah. You know, my car and all of that, they use that to attack his holiness and to attempt it use, see some people, some strange people wrote really strange book about that. And, uh, that is a very important to clarify that yes, that in Shambala, there's no religious persecution of anybody in any direction, you know? Yeah. And then there's the whole, even the thing about how in, uh, in Shambala on the, um, you know, uh, I mean the kind of checker himself, he teaches the four Vader's out of his four faces. He teaches the four Vedas out of the four phases, and then he <inaudible> out of four phases. So it kind of chakras expressing all the different viewpoints and all the different traditions really. Um, and, uh, after Shambala, there's no more of any kind of forcing anybody about any religion. It's really important to me.
Speaker 3 00:58:14 Yeah. So the rest, uh, everything rest, rest, rest is a temporary rest. We all SIM the Shambala mission that indestructable risks. Right?
Speaker 2 00:58:37 No, I translate, I translate the Kalki Jabil. Well, you know, the Regan yes. As democratic king. Yeah. Because they make all one cast and no many no cast. So that's democracy. Yes. Costless with a king like Norway or, or, or England it's supposed to be. So, so that's great. So that's great. So thank you so much. Number J you know, um, uh, this is, um, I don't want to hold you too long and also in this kind of podcast, uh, you CA people won't watch more than about one hour or something like that. So can you, is there a last thing would like to say about golden age? I think, I think all your work on bringing Kala chakra and making it known around the planet is wonderful. You know, it's like, that's, that's helped to bring golden age. I really think so. And I, especially like how you say, if you do kind of chakra, then you open your being in contact right now. You don't say I'm going to be born later in college chakra. I mean, maybe that might be the case, but the point is I'm in Shambala and I'm saying, you making Shambhala now, this is what I like. I liked that idea. So is there anything else you would like to add any sort of final, final talk them?
Speaker 3 01:00:04 Yeah, I don't have much to say. I just really would like, thank you so much your time and you help me, you know, <inaudible> opportunity to talk with you. Uh, that is a really wonderful and yeah, so not so many college scholars in the world, so I didn't have much chance to talk too much to them. So, uh, this is,
Speaker 2 01:00:29 I like to invite you in, but Jay, I am organizing, you know, we have a pretty good translation, although not that good, but pretty good. First, better than before of two to four chapter. I mean, two to five, I have the version of three and a five, the two published very soon and two and four, we already published, although they can be improved. Definitely. And then one is some parts of one were done by one person, but he didn't finish his a lot leftover. And so I want to make a color chakra translators conference, you know, for the purpose of, to the translating female or provide, especially in digital up and, and the, the, the new, the Lego countercurrent. And, um, I thought to do it originally last summer, but with COVID we couldn't do, then I wanted to do this summer, but then COVID, we can do so it could be maybe summer 22 or maybe early in the year, 2021.
Speaker 2 01:01:29 And I like to invite you to come to that, if you would be so kind, you know, but we will know six months ahead of time. Of course, exactly when and all the people who translated some of those different things. And then some other ones who criticize them. I want to invite them both because the one thing is this, I think that we owe it to the English speaking people that we settle. We make decision, we negotiate we've settled on terminology so that, you know, uh, St. Jude has the one word that is in all of the books, you know, and now that different in each book, you know what I mean, same Tibetan word is different English word. That's too silly, you know, and nowadays, so we should be able to agree and everybody thinks their word is special. You know, everyone knows they have the best word.
Speaker 2 01:02:17 And I know I might, our I'm still, I still want to negotiate. So we'll agree. And so I don't have to give up sometimes, you know, some of the seminar and, um, and it would be great if you would join us at that time. If you have, you know, it was, we're trying to fit it in your schedule sometime we don't know, even right now, when we will do it, we might even do online. If, if there, if in India and here and there there's new waves of virus, we might try to have some ongoing online dialogue. I'm not sure how we will do it, but, uh, you know, Vesta, Wallace, Tim's Hartsell, um, uh, David Rigo said of all the people who worked on, we w we will try to invite, you know, and I have a discussion. And then, you know, we won't just talk about how nice is it. We're going to actually debate and negotiate and then agreed to some terminology, everyone, and everyone used it. The terminology.
Speaker 3 01:03:10 Yes. Yes. Very, very difficult. I, when you said this, I remember one, uh, last year I tried to, uh, my remit, uh, book, uh, um, global Remi book, uh, try to translate in Tibetan and then a letter, somebody, a letter translate into Tibetan, and he, we have very deep, big disagreement. How you translated the spiritual in Tibetan, you know,
Speaker 2 01:03:38 How spiritual,
Speaker 3 01:03:40 How do you say, do you know before, have you translated before?
Speaker 2 01:03:45 Yeah. It's very hard to say you it's very true. And how do you translate into Tibetan? Um, in a way Chobani, I think spiritual means Shoba. Yeah, we have only children person is a trooper. Yeah.
Speaker 3 01:04:03 He, he thinks the chew is the, then chew is, becomes religion. Is the religion not spiritual? So that's why I, no, I
Speaker 2 01:04:11 Didn't agree with that. That's completely wrong. You know, that's a bundle makes 11 meetings of chair, 11 meetings, and, and four or five of them are sort of more like the law religion. And there's a concept in Western, um, sociology, and it's called pattern, maintaining meaning pattern transcending, meaning the <inaudible> when they say to Jonah, he has to go kill some people. Cause he's a, chatrier, you know, he's a warrior, that's a pattern maintaining me. That's his dimer. That means that's a pattern that means duty or, you know, custom duty law, you know, the law of the warrior. And, but then Buddha's path teaching virtue, even Nirvana, you know, ultimate reality. And all of those meanings are pattern transcending because they're beyond their freedom. They're going toward freedom. And, um, so to just say, true is only religion is totally wrong. I think I do translate, for example, Bodhi, cheetah, cheetah.
Speaker 2 01:05:23 I use the word spirit in English and I see the spirit of enlightenment and I'm conceiving this spirit of enlightenment and, um, uh, but, and some people use that, but other people, they always put bow. They always write it in Sanskrit Bodhicitta. And on top of that, they make me really mad because they write it with a C in English and in English to see you don't pronounce check either cut or sad, but not. So they everybody's missed all the Westerners until at least, at least you have to put ch so I dunno, I dunno, but, but spiritual, I think is the trip out someone who, for example, the, you know, um, a gunnysack some, you know, the, the one who seeks a future life, one who seeks Nirvana for himself about et cetera. So three levels of, uh, the three levels in the Lamrim. So those are the spiritual people, the, the, the, um, the materialist is not spiritual. So, so the at least there's one is trying to go to heaven. One is trying to go nearby. One wants to take the whole change the whole world. So those are spiritual Churchill people. Those are all Tribeca and a turbine who is only wanting to just living in this life. They're not really spiritual, I guess, materialist. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:06:52 <inaudible> the Bob Thurman podcast is brought to you in part through the generous support of the Tibet house, us men, my membership, community, and listeners, and is distributed. You're a creative commons, new derivatives license, please feel free to share like, and post on your favorite social media. And thanks for tuning in.
