A Tibet House US Menla Conversation with Chandra Easton - Ep. 333

[00:00:14] Speaker A: Welcome to my Bob Thurman podcast. I'm so grateful some good friends enabled me to present them to you. If you enjoy them and find them useful, please think of becoming a member of Tibet House us to help preserve tibetan culture. Tibet House is the Dalai Lama's cultural center in America. All best wishes. Have a great day. This is episode 333, a conversation with Chandra Easton. Here I am happily sitting at Menla mountain retreat, spa retreat in the Makatsky Mountains, talking with the beloved Chandra Easton, Sri Loban, et cetera. Acharya Chandra Easton on her wonderful new book that just came out yesterday, I think, or like very recently, but is already available from your local or Amazon on the taras. On the 21 taras. And I have a painting of the 21 towers with the green tower in the middle behind me. And I have a living tower right there whose name is Chandra Easton. And we're going to be discussing her book. And I'm so honored and thrilled to have her on our little podcast. And I urge everyone to run it. Can you show the book, Tara? Hold it up to show the COVID There's the book. It's called embodying Tara. And I wrote a blurb, I think, which they put on the back cover, I'm told. And there it is. And I forgot what I said, but I know I loved it. And one of the things I love about it so much, beyond the fact that Tara is a wonderful form of Buddha, female form, many forms of Buddha, sort of showing the Buddha's presence everywhere, embodying in ways that help beings. But what I love about her book too, is that she looks at historical great women under each Tara, describing them, sadhana of them, mantra of them. So you can use it yourself to connect to whatever form of Tara is most appealing to you. And they may be different at different times for you. And also she shows historical women as taras and she grants them buddhahood status. And that is really a wonderful thing. I think that it was kind of genius that she thought of that and she does that. And I think it's really wonderful. And I'm still exploring the book and I read it to blurb it and I love it. And now you will too. So how are you today, Tara? And how is it going with the new? Are you happy to see your book and what's going on? Is Tara happy? Let us know. [00:03:38] Speaker B: I'm really praying that the Taras are happy. This whole path to bringing this baby book or book baby to being has know realigning with the Tatas each day, each time I sat down to write or meditate, like, okay, what can I do? How can I be of service to help bring this through and bring their energy through in the most effective way in our time? It always feels like it's the most important time for Tata, right? It's just never ending samsara, this tragic comedy that we're all in. And so, yeah, it was a beautiful process. It was very humbling, and I think it pulled on my. I wouldn't say my strengths, but my interest, because I'm kind of like a renaissance person. I like the arts. I like culture. I like history, biography. And then, of course, buddhism is the pinnacle of my interest. And so I was able to bring a lot of those interests together in the book. So it kept me on my edge, reading and finding real life women who could embody or who did embody the enlightened qualities of these Tatas. And it often really forced me to think creatively about, like, okay, how could a woman express or bring. How is one or two or three women? How are they bringing alive those enlightened qualities of each tata? And we can talk about one or two or three of them. But I really did enjoy, and it feels really good to be. I had this image yesterday on the book birthday. I lit some candles and I held the book, and I really saw the image of the books with the wings, the little cartoon of book that I. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Could see the book. [00:05:20] Speaker B: I just prayed, go out there. I'm letting go, like Arjuna, letting go of the wonderful, the action. And may it be of benefit. And thank you for supporting this. It's also frightening to put a first book out. It's like, oh, God, see? My fault. But it's practice, right? Letting go of bad attachment. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Wonderful. Really. It's wonderful. Actually, I just had this thought that when I wrote my first popular book, not that it was that popular. Well, it was pretty popular, but in the genre of a general popular book, rather than academically only. And it was called inner revolution. And at the time, then I was being interviewed by someone, and I have in that the theory of the cool heroism and the cool revolution as a Buddhism creating that in indian history and in world history. And then someone asked me, well, where are all these cool heroes? Okay, Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, and everybody else is like, violent, killing people. And that's what we think of as hero. And where are they? Where are they? And I was tiny bit stumped in that particular interview. And then I thought suddenly of families, and I thought of my different families, birth family and existing family. And sometimes brothers get into rouse, and even father and son can get into rouse and you can have family rouse. And I think everybody's familiar with that. And so then I suddenly realized who is the hero that solves the row? And I realized it's always the mother, the woman, the sister. And they kind of get in between and they try to cool everybody down. No, dear, you didn't mean that. No, don't say that to all the ones. Sometimes they get banged in the middle, but they actually then become the glue that holds the family together. So suddenly then I was triumphantly answering the person. Half of humanity is the cool heroes. And then that connects with the tantric vow that all women are enlightened at a very advanced, high level tantra. If you ever think a woman is not enlightened, you're making a mistake type of thing. And you did it, though. I didn't then go and find them all and that they really are Tara in the sense of they're sharing enlightenment at whatever level that culture absorbs and needs. And you found them. So you found 42. Didn't you do two per Tara? Or did you do sometimes three or four? I forgot. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Actually, I found hundreds, but only maybe 30 made it into the book. Because in some of the chapters I have two women or two. And also women identified, right? Gender, female identified. I wanted to have at least one. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:56] Speaker B: Marcia P. Johnson. Marcia P. Johnson is one of the justice Tatas. There are a few tatas who are justice oriented. So I brought some of those activities in through real life women. And then also what really was fun towards middle way through the project. My ex brother in law, who's brilliant, he said to me, why don't you start thinking of the Taras in terms of movements? Not just one individual, but movements. Because when you kill, like Martin Luther King, when you take out the head of the movement, the movement can dissipate. You can kill good movements that way. But what about a broader expression of Tara's enlightened activities? So that was also very exciting for me. And so I started to think about the too movement. So one of my taras is, I talk about Tarana Burke, the origin story of too and her impetus, her bodhisattva wish to be able to create an avenue for different people, all people, not just women who've been abused sexually, to say, me too, me too. This is not okay. [00:09:03] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:09:04] Speaker B: And that's an interesting story, because. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Through the Tara form that you then associated with that lady, Tarana Burke did it, Amanda Burke. And then come from the Tara form. Can you lead us through one of them? [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I can tell you. [00:09:22] Speaker A: Gosh. [00:09:23] Speaker B: Which one is that? That one I wasn't planning on talking about. She just wanted to come through. What's cool is Tarana Burke. Her name has Tata in it. And the thing was about this tata that I chose, that I associated me, too. Movement with, is about stopping invading forces, stopping negativity coming in from the outside. So we could think about it in terms of women or people who have helped stop war or invasion or apartheid and stuff like that. And also in terms of violence, sexual violence, people who have experienced the invasion of somebody taking over their body and losing their autonomy. And so that's why the metoo movement was so beautifully kind of explicit or explaining this particular tata. So maybe while you respond to that, I'm going to find that one, and I can read you a little bit about that. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:26] Speaker B: All right. [00:10:27] Speaker A: That's really great. I think that's so valuable. Most of the Taras, I don't know the proportion, you know, better than me, but most of them are gentle in form and healing and so on. And then some of them are fierce, showing the possibility, all different possibilities, which is really great. And the whole idea that Tara, as a female messiah and savior, which her name can mean, and as you point out beautifully in the book, and that's really wonderful. And then you showing that. That they are doing the work and Buddha is female, not just the male idea, I think is very important. And even the great male teachers who do that, they also do have that feminine side, and they find that feminine side in themselves, which is the peaceful one. So. Okay. Did you find her? [00:11:19] Speaker B: I found her. [00:11:21] Speaker A: Which Tara is she? [00:11:22] Speaker B: This is the 17th tata. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:11:26] Speaker B: You wouldn't think it, but she's a peaceful one. And her name is Droma Pakme Nunma, or in Sanskrit, tara Kramani. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Okay. Apramaya Padmili Kramani. Okay. [00:11:47] Speaker B: And the way that we can translate her name is Tata, who stops immeasurable invading forces. [00:11:53] Speaker A: All right. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Maybe I could read just a little bit about her power and then go to the. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah, please do. Yes. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Okay. Our 17th Tata's disposition is peaceful, yet strong. She is gold and red, like the sunrise. She is known for protecting against all external forms of danger, particularly thieves, hunters, and military invasion, to bring safety, calm and tranquility to all. So, yeah, here she is as the protector. Basically. All the Taras are protected. [00:12:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:29] Speaker B: Even if they're peaceful, fierce, or semi. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Farting against an aggressive producer. [00:12:35] Speaker B: Yes. Because she eradicates all forms of violence and cruelty. She is the kata of nonviolence. That's what I call her. I believe the Kempo brothers coined that. I believe it's Kempo. Sewang Dungel and Kenchin, shera Brimbashe. They also have been done a lot of work. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Apramaya kramini. I see. Wonderful. [00:12:59] Speaker B: Yeah. In Sanskrit, apramaya, or in Tibetan, pakme means immeasurable. Right? Pakme, or unfathomable or countless mana can mean retreat or escape. Also invading forces. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Yes. Grammar. [00:13:17] Speaker B: The tibetan nunma means she who stops. Thus I translate her name as Tata, who stops immeasurable invading forces. For ease of reading, we can simply call her Tara. Apramaya or immeasurable Tara. I like to call her that, the immeasurable Tara. She's golden red, like the sunrise. [00:13:39] Speaker A: Beautiful. [00:13:40] Speaker B: Padma quality. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:13:43] Speaker B: Right. So in the book, I talk about the Buddha family and the colors and how they are kind of associated with the Tata's powers and enlightened activities. Okay, just a little bit about me, too, and then we please do. So. In this chapter, I have two examples. One is a real life woman who's super cool. World War II. Virginia hall, one of the great undercover agents of World War II. So that's fun, because that talks about her and her helping to stop the german invading. Yeah, yeah. And then the too is the next. Then I'm like, okay, let's think about her in terms of movements. How does a movement. [00:14:26] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:26] Speaker B: It's like, how does a movement channel Tara's enlightened activity of compassionate action, protecting. [00:14:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:33] Speaker B: So just a little bit from this section. This is page 217. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:40] Speaker B: We can think of real life manifestations of the 21 taras, not just in terms of individuals, but also broader movements. The Metoo movement is a powerful expression of Tara Apramaya's enlightened activity of protection and healing suffering in the context of sexual abuse. The metoo movement raises awareness about sexual violence, working to undermine the cultural norms that protect and perpetuate the abuse, as giving voice to women, men, and gender non conforming individuals who might otherwise feel alone. I talk about Tarana Burke's origin story, how she wrote me, too, as she wanted to heal her own history of abuse. And then I go on to say, so much is stolen from those who have experienced sexual assault. Survivors may feel that their bodies are not really their own anymore. While reading about sexual violence and its repercussions, the violation and theft that occurs, I was struck with how this aligned with Tara Apramaya's power to halt and heal violence that attempts to come into us from the outside. Sexual abuse robs us of our sense of autonomy and strips us of our agency over our own bodies. Sexual assault may induce feelings of depression and anxiety, guilt, PTSD, and personality disruptions such as borderline personality disorder. Survivors may find it challenging to form healthy attachments with others, and they are more likely to use drugs and alcohol to numb the pain of abuse. So I wanted to highlight that. And what does sexual abuse, that invasion from the outside, do to people? Last part here, the MeToo movement is a force that says enough is enough, like Tara Apramaya, and seeks to stop sexual abuse through exposing and building solidarity among survivors and allies as Tatas in training, meaning all of us, right? If we're engaging as tatas in training, we must be willing to touch the depths of our own and others pain so that we can heal and thereby become a refuge for others. This way, we are all a part of the movement and we can play a role in protecting all beings in the three worlds, meaning everywhere from harm. Let's explore further ways to embody Tata below, both in our daily lives and in our meditation practice. So then I tie things into, like, how do we do that? We might not be tarana burke, we might not be a tara, but how do us normal folks, right, or at least not you, embody. [00:17:27] Speaker A: In other words, be a tara? What I love also about it, you said she's red gold. So she's very beautiful, actually. So in other words, also that might make a person who's invaded like that, raped or whatever, molested in some way, then they feel scared to show their beauty, but she's not, because she's strong enough to have her beauty and allowed to have her beauty without that being invaded in some way and being made guilty about it. I think in the sort of rapist cultures where they can't go to the police or they can't do anything, they always blame the beautiful woman. Her beauty is the problem. The poor guy couldn't help it. They excuse that behavior by that. So it's wonderful that she's not like, fierce looking. She's beautiful looking. I think that's wonderful. [00:18:15] Speaker B: And all the cars are wearing very sexy outfits, too. They have the jewels and the silk. They're not hiding. They're not hiding there. Exactly. Beauty. And it doesn't mean to be all this kind of hourglass, idealistic, skinny, not uncomfortably alive, dynamic and fearless. [00:18:35] Speaker A: Yes, that's really great. I love that. And the way you found that. And was her origin story like that? She had a lot of that abuse, and then she recovered completely as a child. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I really highly recommend either reading her book, I listen to her audiobook. The resource is in my book. I can't remember the exact name of her book off the top of my head. It's her autobiography. It is beautiful. And she talks about the history of sexual abuse from an early age and not feeling protected. [00:19:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:05] Speaker B: And learning about others and being like, no, we have to stop this. So me too. [00:19:11] Speaker A: It's wonderful. So your book provides a template for the reader to both see people who dealt with such difficulty and then recovered in a certain way and are able to still shine beautifully in a way of not feeling ashamed of anything or realizing by pushing back these immeasurable violence, immeasurable aggression, really crime. And it can also be aggression. So they have a template of being an enlightened person who has recovered from that. And then second, they have a template of, you find a real person who managed this, who becomes a model for some people, for the move people in this kind of movement which we so desperately need today. It's wonderful. I did have a dream last night, which I really enjoyed, where I was in Washington and the chief justice. But in the dream, he kept alternating between male and being female. And somehow when he looked female, I was in his office, and when he looked female, he looked like that senator from Maine. I can't remember her name. I forgot her name. But anyway, he looked like that. But he suddenly changed into female. And then he announced, which I'm desperately for someone to do, that Donald Trump is disqualified from running for office by the 14th Amendment, which I don't understand, why the Democrats, why our administration, existing government administration cannot enforce, because it's part of our constitution, right, that someone who took an oath of office and was an officer of the United States and then violated that by insurrecting and by giving aid and comfort to Putin, our enemy, not supporting Ukraine, and so on, trying to give him Ukraine. That person can't, again, hold office. It doesn't mean he's criminal. He can stay in Morhalago, but he can't run for office again, which I don't know why we don't enforce. And we're acting like we have to be afraid that he might be elected by some crazies in order, even though he was the worst president in history. So it was a wonderful thing that he announced that in my dream, he announced that he, Supreme Court was not going to entertain any challenge to the 14th amendment and that he could be therefore taken off the ballot everywhere by alert vote purple and states. And I woke up so happy. But he had to shift to female to do that. Robert, I don't know if it's likely that he will do that, but of course, it doesn't say in 14th Amendment, you should go and you have to take him to court or go to the Supreme Court. It doesn't need the supreme Court. You just can't enforce it if you're the administration, like the president and the district attorney. But somehow they haven't dared do it. So we have this mob rule of this serial pussy grabber who somehow is now allowed to act like he can be president again, even though he never participated in the democratic process, in fact, whatsoever. Because that's the tragedy of people who do invade other people, is they don't find real pleasure because they're just using someone like, could be plastic doll as far as they're concerned. And that's not the real meeting of hearts at all. So then they're dissatisfied and they go after somebody else. It's really wonderful. So, okay, what's another one? What about Marici? You mentioned Marichi. What? [00:22:42] Speaker B: Let's go to Marichi. But what you're talking about also brings me to think about another tata, who. [00:22:47] Speaker A: Is. [00:22:53] Speaker B: One of the Tatas, who actually, you know how some of these tatas can feel a little arcane, right? They're a little far away. Like one of them is called Tata, who pacifies the misuse of mantric power, right? I don't know. Let me see which one it is. Seven. I think it's seven. After the book, it's all Alphabet soup a little bit for me. Sometimes I memorize most of them, and then some of them are a little bit like, okay, but this one, I. [00:23:21] Speaker A: Was like, cult abusers. She's after the cult abusers. [00:23:29] Speaker B: Exactly. Ideologies. Ideologies. Like the misuse of words. So, yes, of course, mantra is important in tantra. We have to understand that if that power is misused, it can bring about a lot of suffering. As Vajrayana Buddhists, we understand that. But mainstream folks are like, what are you talking about? This is a little too woo woo, right? Or maybe too strange and arcane. So I started thinking about mantra in terms like, they're incantations, right? If we were to translate mantra, we could say it's an incantation. I don't know how you would translate mantra. Yeah. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Powerful poetic word, really. It's a creative word, a poetic word that creates something. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Misuse, create, bad things. [00:24:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like a magical spell, but better because it's imbued with buddhist intention of bodhicitta, hopefully. But if it's misused, it can cause harm. Right? So I started to think about incantation or words formulas, like, used in a misused way, like misuse of those. And I thought of ideologies, right? Because words create ideas. Ideas can be manipulated and become ideologies that distort reality and that cause people to believe, like, know this whole weird hallucination we're experiencing with Fox News and all that, we know what we're talking. Like, what is going. [00:25:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I found Malala, actually, because the story of Malala in Afghanistan, Pakistan area, you know, she started to challenge the Taliban rule, and she was shot in the head because of that and then had to recover in a hospital in England. And now it's really outspoken around education for women and girls. But the story is so interesting because her and others like her, including her father, were fighting against this Taliban ideology that would limit the movement of women and the education of women. And the story is that one of the Taliban leaders, I don't remember his name. It's in my book, said would go into the Swat valley where she lived, her tribe, her community lived, and speak eloquently to women over the loudspeakers in the villages and say, we believe in equality for women. All women should be educated. Really saying what he knew people wanted to hear. So perpetuating this kind of ideological illusion. And once he kind of garnered their support and got that support from the community because of what he was saying, he turned it and then started limiting, killing, blowing up Taliban, started blowing up these schools. We all know what's been going on there. It's a tragic story. So that Tara is. I tied it into ideologies and how that can distort and cause harm and how this particular Tara can pacify and help us come to consensus reality to a certain extent, understanding truth and dharma in that respect of justice and reality. So you see how the creative way of. How do we bring these tatas alive in the world and see how they can. It's not just about mantra and misuse of power from mantras, which most people won't even really understand, but also words as mantra, as incantation and then ideologies and how they can be misused. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Which Tara is it? What's her name? And what does she look like? [00:27:21] Speaker B: Yeah. All of these taras are wanting to come through, and they're like, we're not numbers we can't put into boxes. So, six, maybe you can respond while I look again. Can you do that? Talk a little bit. I'd love to hear what you think about all that. [00:27:46] Speaker A: That's a wonderful idea. And very brave, Malala. My goodness. And what a heroine. And in a way, they are so dominant in the Taliban now and they're destroying all the schools and everything. And again, in Afghanistan, and it was really impossible to deal with them. And poor Biden had to clean it up. That's where I really admired Biden, actually, because it was started by Bush, who foolishly occupied Afghanistan, the northern alliance, which was the one that got rid of the al Qaeda and the Taliban initially, after 911, they welcomed our help to get rid of al Qaeda. But then the advanced special ops guys who were working with them, where they enlisted our help to get rid of the Taliban, our technological military help. Then they told our Pentagon, don't occupy and don't invade. The minute you occupy Afghanistan, then the bad guys, the Taliban types, will use that as saying you're the bad guy because you invaded our country and so helped from outside and let them sort it out and support them to sort it out. But we stupidly stuck in that guy with the green outfit. I forgot his name too. And then did that. The Taliban, from their sanctuaries in Pakistan, they then were able to stir up the constant resistance and it became impossible. And they lost control of the country. And no president, even Obama did. Obama knew he should leave, but he didn't dare. This president is supposed to show they're strong, so nobody can defeat us. And Biden took the humiliation of leaving, which was right now, of course, it led to a bad thing, but then the people in Afghanistan themselves will rise up when their girls are beaten up like this. And she became internationally known for her bravery and was really so interesting to Swat Valley. That's where Padmasambaba came from. That was a very magical ancient kingdom where the people really quite gentle and beautiful. So it's wonderful that you found her and she got her Nobel prize and she also got the Chandra Eastern Tara prize. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, we could start something here. These are living on, like, on my website, I'm creating portal, a way that a place where people can come and get further resources about each of these real life taras that I couldn't put in the book. And then I'm asking people to suggest their own taras because I want it to keep growing. I don't want them to be frozen here. [00:30:30] Speaker A: But in those categories, yeah, like who. [00:30:32] Speaker B: Do you think would be the best 21st? [00:30:35] Speaker A: Tara, tell me more about the 21st one. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so I just wanted to tie this up. So the one, Malala, is the 16th. Tata. [00:30:45] Speaker A: 16Th. Okay. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah. She's also red. Her name is Droma Rignak Topjom. Rignak topjom in Tibetan Sanskrit is Tara vidya mantra prashamani mala prashamani. Yeah. And in each chapter, I talk about how do we break those names down and understand. [00:31:13] Speaker A: Do we? How do we pacify? So how do you break it down? [00:31:17] Speaker B: You want me to break down the name or read about malala or both or just. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this one is red and fierce. You can't tell with the woodblock prints, but on my website, I have color pictures, too, but they didn't want to do color. It was too expensive. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Wonderful. She's holding a lotus. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah, all of them have a lotus. And in this one, she has a double vajra. [00:31:45] Speaker A: Actually, double vajra cross. Oh, cool. In her right hand, which is down in the boon granting gesture, sowing favor upon people after protecting them with advajra cross. That's beautiful. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:59] Speaker A: She pacifies the problem of bala prashamini or mala prashi. Bala prashami. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Bala. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Power. Who controls the power of. Of scientific mantra. Scientific spells. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Good. That's good. That was hard for me to have. [00:32:19] Speaker A: Modern people translate Vidya as a spell or something or a charm. But I like to translate it as a science because scientific formulas are powerful, like equals Mc squared. And the ancient one were some sort of Mantra. But they're also having a physical effect on the world. And when you say spell, people think it's just mumbo jumbo. I don't. Like. That's a westernized translation of that. So Vidyab always means science, which is just powerful. We think, good. Wonderful. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So she pacifies curses and evil spells resulting from the misuse of mantra power. That's what they say she does. And then what's interesting is she also quells the very source of such bad intentions. Ego clinging. You guessed it. As a buddhist, it's always the source of the problem. [00:33:10] Speaker A: Right? [00:33:11] Speaker B: Ego clinging. So she pacifies. She helps to heal that. [00:33:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Wonderful. Which is like an evil spell. It intoxicates beings into performing harmful deeds. So I talk about how I propose that we also think of Vidya mantra as, like, know in this modern sense of the word. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Brilliant. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I go into her mantra. Each chapter has her mantra and an explanation of her symbol atop her lotus. Flower like we've mentioned. Yes, the double vajra in this case. And I talk about what that means. It's so interesting. [00:33:54] Speaker A: What do you say about double vajra? That's upsided. [00:33:57] Speaker B: Double vajra. I love it. So Tara Prashamani's. I often shorten these longer names and I explain why. So I call her Tara Prashamani in the book, for ease of reading, Tara Prashamani's symbol is the double vajra, which. And this is. Hey, I happen to have one right here. This is a vajra. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Double is like a cross representing the mandala and the universe and so on, five quadrants. So her symbol is the double vajra, which represents the principle of ultimate stability and the unshakable enlightenment of the Buddha, meaning that he attained irreversible liberation, consisting of two vajras joined at a central hub with four vajra heads pointing toward the four cardinal directions. The double vajra mirrors the Buddha mandala structure with the colors and wisdoms associated with the center and four quadrants, and represents the immovable foundation of the mandala. In buddhist cosmography, a double vajra underlies the entire universe, with Mount Meru at its hub as the mythical center of the world. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Wonderful. [00:35:09] Speaker B: Each chapter has a little paragraph about that symbol. What does it mean? So we can connect with it? [00:35:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Then I give some more interpretation. I talk this exploring each. Tata's facet is what I call it, and I give some of my own interpretation. And then we talk about the real life Tata Malala Yusuf Zay. I hope I'm saying her last name right, but everybody knows her as Malala. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Malala. She's total, although I've never met her, but I'm dying to. But I did meet her a little bit, reading her book, and I think people will really enjoy meeting her and feeling inspired by her. The other thing I like about the people you pick, they're by no means are they all Buddhists. In fact, very few of them are Buddhists. So in a way, although the double vajra symbolizes this infinite power of spirituality, really, that you can contact by having faith in love and faith beyond death, almost in love, makes you fearless where people can intimidate you. And that's why she can challenge that ideology. Because of her spirituality, she won't be intimidated and depressed. So people who are not necessarily Buddhists even, it's fine, they can think it's God. Is this God or mother goddess? Is this extreme power? And even the materialists, they can think, well, I'm not scared of death because it's just anesthetizing me. It'll all just be nothing. Never mind. Which is a little bit false, but that's what the materialists promise us, that we'll all just be, at least we won't have pain when we die. So that's a little bit good. There's no fear of hell or some negative state. But the best one is where we're going to be infinite life is going to embrace us and we will have more lives and we'll be more taras, that's really good, too. But not everybody has to share the buddhist ideology. To use your wonderful book, I think, and you're sharing Tara as she herself likes to be shared with people of whatever spiritual thing. And I think that's really, really wonderful. Now, you also mentioned Marichi. I don't want to miss your suggestion of talking about Marichi, Tara, the one connected with Marichi and what her nature is, because there's a wonderful tibetan woman that you find, which I think is really neat. So what can you tell us about that one? [00:37:33] Speaker B: I'm so excited to talk about the 21st, Tara, with you, because I know you've met the real life Tata. And you're right. I didn't want them to be all buddhist women. I wanted them to be women from all around the world, very diverse, not white centric, very diverse from many different continents, but also different traditions, not necessarily buddhist, because we can all embody those bodhicitta, compassionate qualities, no matter what our traditions are. [00:38:03] Speaker A: And the wisdom, intelligence, quality, by the way, always goes with the compassion. Because woman, by truly loving, by truly caring for people, she always figures a way to take care of the family and the child. And she has very strong intelligence. And those people who think women are dumb or something, like the former head of Harvard who got kicked out, I mean, it's know well, the greatest mathematician in ancient history was that woman in the library of Alexandria, whose name, of course, I am momentarily forgetting which I privilege of what? [00:38:39] Speaker B: Cleopatra? No, she was a. Yeah, yeah, she was. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Sure. The queen of Egypt. Yes, she was. But there was another famous one. Another famous murdered by Clement of Alexandria, who burned down the library of Alexandria. And I just forgot her name. But she was most amazing mathematician. [00:38:55] Speaker B: We could add her. [00:38:57] Speaker A: What? [00:38:58] Speaker B: Well, let's remember her name. When you remember her name, text it or email me and I'll add her as one of the. Because, right. She's the second. Arts and sciences and creativity and science, maths. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:39:15] Speaker B: That's why I want them to keep. I want people like you to say, like, oh, she's a Tara. She's a Tara. And then what I'll do, we'll all. [00:39:22] Speaker A: Interact with your website and do that. We will. We'll encourage everyone who listens to this. Please do follow your website. What is the website? What is the address? [00:39:31] Speaker B: My name? Chandraeaston.com. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Chandrayson.com. [00:39:35] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. And then we're building out those pages. So they're not quite ready yet, but they will be ready soon for all the taras. [00:39:42] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:43] Speaker B: I have a Tara two that you know, Alexandria Library, mathematician named such and such. She put it in and I will start capturing. [00:39:54] Speaker A: There's a really nice modern book about her by one woman scientist, contemporary, one that. I'm sorry, I can't remember names, but it's really marvelous about how amazing she was. And she was murdered by a mob sicked on her by the archbishop of Alexandria, who then burnt the library of Alexandria down in the third century by being religion, ideology, being intolerant of knowledge and intelligence and science, which is just terrible. Anyway, so what about Marici? Now, come on. [00:40:26] Speaker B: I know who you're talking about. Yes. That's great. Okay, so I'll just start from the beginning. So Tata, Marici is our last but not least Tata, she's the 21st Tata. But keep in mind, you don't have to learn these in order, by the way. I mean, they're given these numbers. This is the line drawing of her. Can you see her name? [00:40:43] Speaker A: Yes, I do. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Droma lamo uzer Chenma. [00:40:50] Speaker A: The radiant one. The one who. Light rays. Yes. The divine light rays or the divine radiance. [00:41:00] Speaker B: Tara. Marichi means the same thing. [00:41:02] Speaker A: Yes. Marichi. Very famous. She's very famous. Indian goddess. Also. Marichi. [00:41:06] Speaker B: Exactly. That's the other thing we haven't touched on, which is a lot of these have that crossover that hindu and buddhist tantra share, like Saraswati, which is really. She's really the oldest goddess in the Vedas. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:20] Speaker B: She's one of the first goddesses ever mentioned. And I talk about that in my chapter, too, for Saraswati in this iconography. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Oh, great artist as well as a great. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. So there's other ones, like, Bhairavi is one of the third. Tara is very much like Lakshmi. The name isn't the same, but iconography is similar. [00:41:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:48] Speaker B: Then we have Marichi. There's Ushnisha, Vijaya. That's another one. I would love to. If we have time, we could talk about. I'd love to hear you talk about, but. Okay, let's come back to this amazing goddess, Tata. Rays of light, I call her. [00:42:04] Speaker A: Yes, that's it. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Tata Marichi is peaceful and white in color. And keep in mind, earlier in the book, I say, when we say white, we don't mean white, we mean crystal clear. That's what a famous tibetan artist told me. Tonka painter said, paint white because we don't have clear. Right. So we have to paint it white. But really white deities are crystalline, clear, kind of like that, moving away from white centric. Because all the peaceful deities are white. Right. So we can get into some strange stuff there. The ones are black and blue, and the ones are white. [00:42:41] Speaker A: Clear light, which is actually transparency, like crystal. Yes, absolutely. [00:42:45] Speaker B: Yes. Okay, so Tara marici is peaceful and white in color as our longevity tata, which is what she symbolizes often. She's associated with the classic white tata, but earlier in this pantheon, Tara four is Ushnisha Vijayatara, who is another long life deity. Oh, wow. I focus on her more as a long life one. She's a golden white. She's not white. More associated with Pragya paramita. But she's considered like amitayas, ushnisha Vijaya, and then white Tara. All these kind of three mainisha also. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Connected with Buddha's crown dome, what I call his extra scoop of brains. That symbolizes his higher intelligence that we all have, actually. But he has developed. So he has a body with a crown extended crown protrusion, they call. So she is. Regardless of that. [00:43:52] Speaker B: Right. Like the myth is that when he was expounding dharma, she came out of his crown. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:43:59] Speaker B: And recited the Ushnisha Vijaya sutra, which is very interesting and popular and more mahayana. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yes. So this connects with. [00:44:10] Speaker B: We were. I wanted to point out that I focused more on long life and health with the fourth Tata Ushani should be. Because that's her power, too. [00:44:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:44:19] Speaker B: 21St Tata is also about longevity, but because I had already talked about health and well being, because there are a couple of Tatas, actually, who tackle that, I wanted to think more creatively, and so I started to think of this tata Marichi as our longevity Tata in different ways. But here, I'll read you. So, as our longevity Tata, she protects our vitality. Yes. And increases longevity, restoring the life force of the sick. She's also renowned for protecting animals and travelers, including refugees, immigrants, and anyone going through transitions. She brings about wisdom and removes obstacles that stand in the way of our spiritual progress. We talk about her name and her mantra, om tari tutariture marichie che brum nijas faha. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Oh, Marisha, that's wonderful. I love that mantra, Brum. That's where you create manifest forms out of Brum. Really great, right. You connected her with Dala Lama's sister. [00:45:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So then the real life Tata. I say my approach to the real life Tata Marichi is not what you might expect. Rather than focusing on health and longevity, which are also the skillful means of Tata Ushnisha Vijaya and Tata Shabadi, which is the 20th Tata, I highlight an extraordinary woman who has helped preserve the longevity of her culture. [00:45:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Jetson Hema. [00:45:56] Speaker A: Yes. I've known her since I first knew Dala Lama about 60 years ago. And as a sister of Dala Lama, she could have just sat back and kind of just hang out. I'm the sister of Dalhalama, like somebody who's a presidential relative in America. But in fact, she took upon herself to deal with lots of children, refugees, orphans, and children whose parents were trapped by the chinese invasion of Tibet and the kind of terrible genocide that has been going on there for 70 years. And she created a whole network of marvelous schools and went all around and worked with, went to Europe and America and found foundations and supported them. And then she mothered them personally and went to all of those places. And she made sure that the parent, the couples who would be the master of each, she had them in little houses. She designed it in a wonderful communal way where eight or nine children or ten would be in a particular small house, and they would have a couple like parents for all the children, and they would keep their tibetan culture, but learn western languages and knowledge. And really, she's done the most amazing. We're finally, in the last couple of decades, she's created high schools and colleges as well, and college in Bangalore and this and that. She's just amazing. She's like a miracle worker and so friendly and joyful and never emanating like she's stressed out or something. I've known her for a long know, and she's a real miracle worker, actually. So that Marichi is kind of miraculous. I think in India, she's approached very much as a goddess of prosperity, Marichi, by the indian people. She's very well known. One of the Navarati, I think she's one of the nine knight deities. Marichi. Okay, known very. She's definitely. She's kind of the mother of a whole generation of tibetan exile children. Of course, there are some who, parents who escape with their children. And sometimes in order to get them in that special school, they would give their children. And then they'd go meet the parents later. But the parents had some job somewhere where they couldn't keep them in a household because they were all destitute, of course, when they came out. So she really has been a miracle worker, like a female Dalai lama, kind of, but without claiming any spiritual thing, but yet actually taking care of the children. Truly wonderful. Wonderful that you picked her. I think that's. [00:48:29] Speaker B: I felt like it was end. The book is really honoring. There are a couple of other tibetan women in the book, but I was tempted to have all tibetan women because Tibetan Buddhism that I'm focusing on here. But that would have been a bit. [00:48:41] Speaker A: No, I'm so glad you did it. Like, you have sojourner truth and people who escape from slavery and history. Amazing. That's really important because I think people need someone near them. And this book will have a very wide audience. And everyone is enlightened. Actually, it's just a matter of time. And that doesn't mean everyone will be a Buddhist, but it just means everyone will be enlightened from whatever tradition they conceive of that and how they understand that. Which means they'll all be very intelligent and wise and know what to do to help others and themselves. And they will also be very loving and compassionate, which will also give them motive to do the right thing with everyone. Now, tell me one last thing. We don't want to run it too long, because we want this to be easily accessible to people. And how did you get into all of this? I like this tiny bit of your own Tara biography. How did you get into it yourself? [00:49:43] Speaker B: Well, in this life, my mom became buddhist when I was about three. She had lost a child before me and was at the age of two. His name was Michael, and he died of encephalitis, like, overnight. So she was traumatized by that and was suffering and was looking for answers also. That kind of infused me, I think, of, like, she didn't want to lose another child when she's pregnant with in. She found Dharma first. She was studying with a christian mystic named Suzanne from the theosophical society down in Ohio. Yeah, but she knew Lex Hickson and his wife. And Lex said, janine, my mom's name, you have to meet the karmapa. The 16th karmapa is coming. He's an amazing being. My mom had been studying with trunka and was a little like, this isn't my scene. It's beautiful. In some ways, but still too far out. Wild when she had the chance to meet the 16th karmapa. Because of Lex. Because of Lex, really. Colleague or friend? I think of yours who's passed away. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Yes, I love Lex, but I like him very much because I wanted him to stay working with us. My old teacher, Gishi Wango said he and I were brothers. And then I lost my brother. It really annoyed me at the know grief. My way of being grief is getting mad with the person who dies if they didn't stick around. [00:51:18] Speaker B: I'm mad at him too. I mean, I remember him as a wonderful uncle figure who was magic. I do see you guys as brothers. You have the same kind of magic. And you wrote a wonderful introduction to his mother of the Buddha's text, which I love that. [00:51:33] Speaker A: It's very suspicious of it first because he doesn't know the Sanskrit, interprets it. [00:51:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:38] Speaker A: Then I just love the way he brought Bhakti into it in this wonderful way. I did really love that. Yes. Which is there. Wisdom, the goddess. What you do is you grew up like that. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Okay. So my mom took me to the karmapa, the black crown ceremony, and she took refuge with him. When I think it was in 77. I was about four. I was born in 73, so I'm 50 right now. Do the math. I don't remember taking refuge. I probably was just copying my mom because I wanted to be like her. But I do remember the karmapa, and I remember him doing the black crown ceremony. And as a little girl, I saw him disappear when he went into Samadhi. I saw him disappear. I thought it was a circus act. I thought his attendant monks were like a jack in the box, were wheeling him down into the big box frown that he was sitting in. And afterwards, I said to my mom, mom, how did they do that? And she said, how did they do what? And I was like, how do they make him disappear? And she talking about, I didn't see him disappear. So there was this magic, like talk about a spark of something. When I think back about my life that sparked my imagination and my sense of magic and wonder, I don't think. [00:52:56] Speaker A: Everyone sees him disappear when he puts that ad on. So your child's vision, something very special. So please go on. [00:53:03] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. You know how children are. I don't claim to be special at all, but I think there was a bit of that, maybe old karma, but also just that innocence and openness. So over time, like later in my teens, after, I was experimenting with psychedelics and reading lots of books about native american traditions and taoism. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Were they helpful? [00:53:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Psychedelics I loved. Yeah, they really helped me. Like in the early days, the psychedelics helped me drop into my Buddha nature more than they do now. I'm more veiled now. [00:53:36] Speaker A: They just are an initial shattering of a certain depressing cultural elements that give you connection to your deeper sensitivities and deeper awarenesses. But then the successful people are the ones who then realize that's something they can cultivate and develop more carefully on their, more in control of on their own. And don't just think it was just a chemical. That's very important. Oh, yes. And then after you really develop more, they'll be a little bit helpful, but they're not so necessary. Absolutely, yes, go on. [00:54:08] Speaker B: They opened the door for me to get more curious, and then in my early, I decided to, like you said, find the natural way of happiness. It wasn't impermanent and wouldn't give me a hangover. I started meditating and I went to India in my early twenty s and studied tibetan language and Budhist philosophy at the Library of tibetan works and archives. And I came back to school at UCSB, which I had attended before I went to India. While I was in India, they had raised enough money and we were getting ready to inaugurate the 14th Dalai Lama chair in tibetan buddhist studies, the second only to yours, which is Columbia. [00:54:48] Speaker A: Yeah, I helped them raise that. [00:54:53] Speaker B: Right, which is our connection. So when my mom, still in the dharma, we were faxing back and forth because I was living in Dharm Sala before really, email had taken off, faxing my mom saying, I'm homesick. I love it here, but I also feel like it's time for me to come home. I'd been sick a lot, as you know. India can do that. And she said, well, guess what? Because she was involved with that too, like Anne and Linda, who were helping to raise the money there and other folks in Santa Barbara, what's his name? And she said, well, guess what? UCSB, your school, is inaugurating this chair in tibetan buddhist studies. And Alan Wallace has been hired as the lecturer, the interim teacher until they find the, I'm sorry, there's a delay. [00:55:51] Speaker A: So we planned that to know I did that, and we planned him to be the permanent one there. But then his thing expanded larger than dysfunction. He did fine. [00:56:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I loved his work, and I had met him before I went to India. He was really like one of my, not idols, but he was one of the people. I was like, I want to be like, first one of the first Dalai Lama and Alan and you. It's funny. They're all men, right? But I want to be like them. I want to do that because I'm so hair on fire for Dharma. And, like, you wanted to bring it down, not bring it down to earth, but make it cool for younger folks so we didn't get into drugs and alcohol. Sarah, I want it to be fun and exciting for people. So that's been my vow, and I'm trying to do that, and that's what this book is doing. But I want to tell about when I met you for the first time. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Oh, no. What happened? [00:56:48] Speaker B: So I planned to come home. I learned about this. I literally reapplied to UCSD with a one fax form. In the good old days, super easy got back in as a religious studies major, which was my major before. And so it was easy reentry. Right before I flew home in dharm sala, the Nyungne festivals were happening, nyong practice and retreats were happening. And I'd never done that before. So I decided to join, which is this long day after day fasting with lots of prostrations and prayers, a tradition founded by a nun, a tibetan nun, many years ago. And so I did that. So I had this. I had really purified a lot, really had done abstinence, really tapas type purification practices for the Nyungne. Then I hopped on a plane, came back to Santa Barbara, and boom, like a week later, his Holiness the Dalai Lama landed in Santa Barbara. And you so all of know Ogs started landing like birds flocking to Santa Barbara to inaugurate this magical thing. And I got to have front row center seats of it all, literally. I think you interviewed him, or Alan did, too, on the stage at Campbell hall at UCSB. And this is 1997. [00:58:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:58:11] Speaker B: My dad and I, who's not buddhist at all, he's more of a philosopher. We got to sit front row center with his Holiness the Dalai Lama. You know, having come from Dharmsala, where I'm like, way in the back, just basking in the devotion of the tibetan culture. Well, then here I'm in Santa Barbara, front row center in Campbell hall at UCSB, getting full shot deepat from his Oligon Sadalai lama. I thought my head was going to. I hadn't been that close to him ever. And then I met you out front. Right before that talk. You were standing out there with Nena. And my mom had met you guys before, so I think she brought me over to you and introduced me to you. And you said, what's your name? I said, chandra. And you said, oh, Chandra Kirti. We need more women buddhist scholars. You keep going, Chandra Kirti. You kept making fun of me, like chiding that. Really? And then I heard you give a talk a day or two later, I gave a slideshow at the fundraiser dinner. I talked about the two main streets of Darmsallo, the clean one and the dirty one from the cloud gonge. And you piped up and you told some jokes. You probably don't remember any of this, but you were very important to me in those days. Really fun. Here's an amazing thinker whose heart is so overflowing with compassion, but his intellect is so brilliant that if I could even just do a little bit of, like, what Thurman and Alan are doing, I would be so happy. [00:59:41] Speaker A: But then tell me then, how did you meet Lama Tutrim and join with her and work with her? I think she saw. [00:59:48] Speaker B: Well, when I was in Dharmsal, I had read her first book, Women of Wisdom, Tibetan Women, so I knew of her work. The first time I saw her was at a Namkai Norbuche retreat in Lake Tahoe in northern California. It was 1999. I was pregnant with my first child, whose name is Tata, by the way, 99. And I was going through it. I don't know about you, but I was like, whoa, hormone. What am I doing with my live weight? Am I going to be able to continue my dharma while being a mother? How do I do that? All my mentors were men. [01:00:24] Speaker A: You said first, how many do you have? [01:00:27] Speaker B: Two. [01:00:28] Speaker A: Oh, great. And they are doing well. Where are they now? [01:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah. My eldest, Tata, is 23. Oh, wow. Thriving in East Hollywood, working in film and production and writing. And they're modeling like you're Uma, and acting a bit and trying to survive in this world. They've created a collective of queer artists, writers, musicians, actors. And Tara does a lot of art production, too. So, yeah, they're great. They them. They're great. And they've been my teacher around gender, by the way, and all these issues about gender identity. They've been really my teacher. And then Tejas is. His name is 15, freshman at Berkeley High. And he's still breathing. [01:01:24] Speaker A: It's kind of, like. [01:01:27] Speaker B: A little tough, but he's a brilliant kid, and I know he'll get through, so. And he's really in Dharma right now. He's meditating. He wants to talk about. And life and philosophy is heartbroken by the Middle east. What's happening. So he's really having that awakening of like, whoa, Samsara is not to be trusted. I can go off on that. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Tell him Samsara is good. Tell him dictatorial leaders are causing the trouble. It's Israel and it's not Palestine. It's Hamas leaders and it's Netanyahu trying to prevent the two stage solution. Who actually created Hamas, and then it's Putin, and then it's the head of Iran, that horrible guy who's killing the ladies know, addressing the way he thinks. And he told Hamas. Putin asked him to tell Hamas and Hezbollah to start trouble there, to take the heat off Ukraine, which Putin is dictated. And Putin is harming the russian people madly, not just Ukrainians. [01:02:30] Speaker B: I agree. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Yes. We're at a time when people like your young son are going to make the people powerful and true democracy everywhere on the planet, and no more dictators. Dictator role. And Trump is not going to be our dictator, which Putin. He's also an agent of Putin. And all those people who want to bag Ukraine and give Ukraine to Putin are actually paid off by Putin in Bannon. All those people, they actually are agents of the JGB. They are traders. Totally. In the future, this will become known, I promise him. So don't ever be mad at any of the nations, because people themselves and all the nations and all the women in those places especially, and the men can. Are a little more stupid and get more easily confused by dictators. But the people want peace and they just want to live well and they want to be happy. And so don't despair. What we're getting to see and what the crises that are happening are all brought on by the 20th century world war dictator types still in charge of societies with technology that is beyond that kind of war because it's too powerful, because there's no winner. They can't win any wars anyway, so they destroy their own people. Actually, inevitably, the dictators, because they're scared of their own bodyguards. Putin at the table, 40 yard long, and the weirdo is like, his own ministers are like, 40 yards away from him. Just tell him to study up on democracy and how to make the people powerful and not particular one. And there's not a particular bad nation. Don't fall for that. It's the leaders who are dictatorial are no good. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, I ma'am saying that, and he's understanding. But then he's also a victim of the whole social media, clickbait type of culture for the. It just feeds the fear and the extremism. So I'm really fighting. I'm pissed. [01:04:34] Speaker A: Social media world Robbie Slovon said a great thing here. He said, we all have a craving because human beings like fire. So craving to be in front of an open fire and look at the flames crackling and it's calming to our nervous system and it's really wonderful. [01:04:50] Speaker B: It is. [01:04:51] Speaker A: We look at our cell phones instead and we go through them and we get brainwashed and we look at a kind of fire. It is fire, electricity, but fire that gives us the wrong direction and it doesn't ever satisfy it. So we endlessly scroll and then we become victims of brainwashing by doing that. And much better to sit out in the backyard and look at a fire. Or if you have an open fireplace, just look at the flames and stay off the. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Check your little bit of email, but don't just watch it all the time. [01:05:24] Speaker B: That's beautiful analogy. It's so true. I've had the pleasure of sitting many a fire with Robert Sviboda and learned so much from that. I agree. It's a primal instinct and hunger to chant around the fire with other being, other human beings and make your aspirations heard through the fire. It's so healing. So, yeah, I will try to get my kid in front of that fire. You know what I call it? I'm just upset because I feel like my children. One is 23, the other is 15. They are both Gen Z. My daughter or my kid. 23, beginning of Gen Z, born in 2000. My 15 year old towards the end of Gen Z, born in 2008. So instead of Gen Z, I'm calling it Gen G. Generation G. You know why I'm calling them generation guinea pig? They're the freaking guinea pigs of social media and these horrible technologies that are causing so much anxiety in the kids. And my two children are the guinea. [01:06:25] Speaker A: Pigs, the human genius. They are going to be so amazing, this generation. And they are all Taras and Vajrapanis or whatever they are. And they came to this planet in a dire moment when mother Earth needs help and they're all bodhisattvas and don't worry, and they're going to take care of it. They are. And of course, we're going to do our best to make sure it's not handed over as badly as it seems now, which means we have to end these dictators, these world war people, and we will do that. And especially women. All the Taras, your book is wonderful, will encourage women to be Taras. And even maybe the Magaluni wives will sneak off in the quiet privacy of the voting booth. And they will vote against the weirdness and they'll vote for sanity and freedom for their own bodies and all the polls that want to make everybody feel hopeless and despaired and vote for the idiot with the false promises instead. They'll vote practically and we'll be fine. It will defy the polls. And so I think that encourage them. I hope they read mom's book. It's hard sometimes for kids to want to read mom's book. I hope they do and they'll be inspired by that. So listen, I think unfortunately, I would love to talk to you another hour. And we will. I would like to have, when the book has more, been around some more and your website is more, let's have another one and let's do a couple of other Taras in that focus on them. But I think I try to be a little disciplined and not too long because then people get tired for a podcast, around an hour is good. [01:08:10] Speaker B: Yes. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Thank you. I'm so honored to have you. Really, I'm honored right at the launch of your book to do one of your first. Tara Ricochet Chandra, Tara ricochet moon, Tara Rimpuche. So thank you so much and all the best to the book. And may it have wings to fly everywhere. And I hope already people are buying foreign rights and it's going in other countries and other cultures, especially Spanish. I really hope it flies down to South America where they all love Virgin Mary and she's a kind of connected to Tara because it doesn't mean being Buddhist, it means being a Buddha, right? I mean, Buddha wasn't a Buddhist. There was no Buddhism. It was just him helping people with learning how to develop themselves and into becoming more capable and wise and loving beings and the men to listen to their wives and to be kind and pleasant to them and to realize the gift of their children and not be harsh with them. So hopefully that's what it will accomplish. Thank you so much. [01:09:21] Speaker B: I'm really honored and live so appreciate it. It was a real pleasure. [01:09:26] Speaker A: Okay. And we'll do it again soon and be well and be happy. All the best. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Okay, well, thank you. [01:09:32] Speaker A: The flying book, it's flying out beautifully. Hold it up, please. One more time. Isn't that pretty? That's a green Tara who's very, very dynamic, wonderful, embodying Tara. And you really do, Chandra, I really, really am so happy for the book. So proud of you. Thank you so much. [01:09:54] Speaker B: I want to thank Mahama Sultram. I didn't get to finish so she's the one who said, why don't you bring the Taras alive? So because of my dear woman teacher who helped me through my know, pregnancy, becoming a mother and shifting, we can. [01:10:09] Speaker A: Go a little longer. Yeah, I did a final per eraser there, but good. A little longer. More about Lama Sutra. I love her too. I think she. [01:10:16] Speaker B: More about her. Yeah. She was so, and still is so important to me as a woman dharma practitioner. We had a lot in common in terms of she had devoted her life, gone to India. She was a nun. [01:10:26] Speaker A: Even I knew her way back. And I was so happy when she was recognized as the reincarnation of Machik Labda. And I really was delighted for her. And she handled it beautifully. Built that beautiful place in Colorado and everything. And she still does beautiful things. She's there every Sunday, right? Llama live. [01:10:46] Speaker B: Llama live. On Facebook Live. People can tune in and her and I will have a conversation about the book, hopefully soon, maybe even this weekend. [01:10:55] Speaker A: Or so on Sunday morning. But I'll try to catch that if we're not finishing our retreat here. [01:11:03] Speaker B: Yeah, you and I have to have a conversation on llama Live. Remember we were going to do that a while ago? I had to cancel due to help. [01:11:08] Speaker A: Let's do that. Let's do that. Let's do that too. From your book. And thanks. I like to thank lamat Sutim also for helping you and for making other taras happen there. That's the key thing. More Taras and finding Taras everywhere. Seeing all women as Taurus. I think men should learn to do that. And finally, men can become taros too, I think, without worrying about the plumbing. So all the best. Take care. [01:11:45] Speaker B: There's other plumbing to worry about too, though. Okay? Thank you, Tenzin Thurman law. I so appreciate this. [01:11:53] Speaker A: Thank you. Bob Thurman podcast is produced through Creative Commons, no derivatives license. Please be sure to, like, share and repost on your favorite social media platforms and is brought to you in part through the generous support of the Tibet House Us Menla membership community and listeners like you. To learn more about the benefits of house membership, please visit our [email protected] menla.org and Bob thurman.com Tashi Delic and thanks for tuning in.